Fellowship Church

[josh]

This church is plowing 1.2 million dollars into their pastor. Imagine the good 1.1 million dollars could be doing for others in the nearby community.

$1.2 MM is how much as a % of the church's operating budget? I assume you know this since you are acting like it is a lot of money given the proper perspective. I look forward to your response.

[Brian]

I wonder how Sr would think of Jr's actions?

Anyways, if what Josh says is true and refutes the article, it almost sounds like grounds for slanderous lawsuit.

Whether its all true or not, it seems the Young family lives quite a VERY nice lifestyle. And whether we should/need/want to ask the WWJD question, I still think choosing, or getting the calling, of pursuing a career teaching Jesus word should require a lifestyle that is a little more "humble" in my opinion, whether one has means to more materialist wealth or not.

My grandfather was the asst Minister to one of the most well know pastors in the US and preaching in NYC. I know there were many opportunities to take that visible leadership, and spin off to his own church in which he might build a congregation that allowed the type of lifestyle that Jr is living now. Instead, my dad lived a very middle to lower middle class living. They never had a new car, their house was very modest, and my dad and uncle had to take loans out to put themselves through college. They always had leftovers and never did they fly anywhere or take big vacations. It was a comfortable lifestyle but a choosing of ones lifestyle that substitutes material wealth with religious wealth. While my grandfather chose that life, my uncle and dad did not and chose a non-religious career that would allow a more materialistic lifestyle.

So, do I think Jr is a "bad" guy? Not at all. I give the benefit of the doubt that he is a decent Christian pastor. Do I think he is living a lifestyle that is inconsistent to what he is preaching? Absolutely. Any preacher that makes that much money should reevaluate the position and priorities.

[Al]

A few weeks ago Pastor Ed reflected on his first 20 years as pastor of FC and disclosed, along with other personal items, the various enterprises he and FC are involved in (publishing, etc). The notion that anything is hidden is unfounded.

Interesting stuff. But I'm not sure who to believe. They should sue WFAA if the story is so wrong. It sounds like it would be an "easy" win if what you say is really true and the story is so wrong.

But regardless, if he is really living in that huge house, that raises the most suspicion, at least to me. In any case, it just doesn't look good for someone who preaches about Jesus. It doesn't convey the right message.

"Would Jesus use a private plane?" Come on. Jesus said "Go...preach, make disciples in all the lands, etc". He didnt say how to go. He didnt say only use old donkeys that can barely walk.

He didn't say use private planes either, nor did he say use luxurious transportation... but my interpretation of the bible is that Jesus was a humble servant, and he lived that type of life. Doesn't seem like he'd use private jets to me. I'm surprised it seems like you think he would just be because he didn't say not to.

[Tiff]

Well, I drink once every six months or so.

Is it safe to assume that tonight is one of those nights??

*Laugh* I know better ... and there's no honey mead anywhere around me.

[admin]

Someone who attends FC posted this on Facebook:


A few weeks ago Pastor Ed reflected on his first 20 years as pastor of FC and disclosed, along with other personal items, the various enterprises he and FC are involved in (publishing, etc). The notion that anything is hidden is unfounded.

This weekend he, along with the independend board of directors who flew in to be here, addressed the report directly. It should come as no surprise to most that the story was so far off on most everything reported as to be comical (were it not so hurtful). To wit:... See More

1. FC does not own a private plane. In the first 13 years at FC, he never traveled. The past 7 years as FC's influence has grown globally, he has had the opportunity to speak to thousands (over 200 thousand) pastors. To do all this AND be back to grapevine to preach each Sunday he sometimes uses a charter. He will travel commercial as much as charter in any given year. This too is governed by the board of directors, not just Ed.

2. Ed's house is not 10,000 square feet. The house is not paid for. Has a loan like most other people.

3. His home is held in trust as is lots of people who deal with security issues. The trust mentioned on the TV is not even the right trust

4. Ed's salary is based on a national salary survey of comparable pastors and is significantly lower than the average

5. Ed is a prolific author. In many cases, Ed's entire income from a book deal goes directly back to the church

6. Church attendance, church giving, and baptisms are all up this year. The TV piece said just the opposite.

7. FC has an independent auditor, an independent board of directors, etc. Ed is more accountable than just about any pastor in the world.

[lantana123]

One word: DISCLOSURE

I think his congregation has a right to know his complete financials as well as the financials of the church, if they have nothing to hide then put it on their website.

[Al]

2. Ed's house is not 10,000 square feet. The house is not paid for. Has a loan like most other people.

I wonder... so is it 10,100 square feet? Maybe 9900 square feet? As for having a loan, does it really matter?

Some of his points aren't very clear and I agree some are a bit vague.

[mrsooner]

2. Ed's house is not 10,000 square feet. The house is not paid for. Has a loan like most other people.

I wonder... so is it 10,100 square feet? Maybe 9900 square feet? As for having a loan, does it really matter?

Some of his points aren't very clear and I agree some are a bit vague.

if this is the correct home...

http://www.dentoncad.com/index.php?opti ... Cd=SL2650A

10C 2003 5,147 sq. feet Main Area
10C 2003 2,711 sq. feet Second Floor
10C 2003 1,564 sq. feet Attached Garage
10C 2003 430 sq. feet Open Porch
10C 2003 343 sq. feet Deck Area

There ya go...

[neighbor]

One word: DISCLOSURE

I think his congregation has a right to know his complete financials as well as the financials of the church, if they have nothing to hide then put it on their website.

The "right"? Maybe, if the church is a publically held corporation. If it's privately held, then no. There are no "rights" to this information. It might be a nice gesture in the interest of the congregation to do so, but they are not under any (legal) obligation.

If people would simply stop giving to these organizations if they feel they aren't being managed to their liking, they would cease to exist.

[Hog Caller]

One word: DISCLOSURE

I think his congregation has a right to know his complete financials as well as the financials of the church, if they have nothing to hide then put it on their website.

The "right"? Maybe, if the church is a publically held corporation. If it's privately held, then no. There are no "rights" to this information. It might be a nice gesture in the interest of the congregation to do so, but they are not under any (legal) obligation.

If people would simply stop giving to these organizations if they feel they aren't being managed to their liking, they would cease to exist.

Almost all churches are incorporated to keep bonehead disgruntled people from suing all of its congregation members. Regarding Fellowship church, the only people who seem to be worried about its financial disclosure to its congregation appear to be the people who do not attend church there and the people who will never attend church there.

[lantana123]

FYI: A friend of mine remained a loyal member there for years... she tithed around $10,000 a year (or 10% of her income) to FC. She wanted to see the financials after they keep always asking for more money for this project or another project... she was told "no", if you don't like it then leave, so she did and found another church.

[josh]

From the horse's mouth:

http://www.edyoungblog.com/

[lantana123]

Another article:

Ed Young Jr.'s Admissions Are More Damning Than The Original News Story

On Saturday night Ed Young and two members of Fellowship Church's Doard of Directors took the stage to 'set things straight and move on'. There's just one really big problem. The things that they admitted to are more damning than the original news story and only the most blind and unquestioningly loyal followers of Ed Young won't see through the spin that was fed to them at Saturday's dog and pony show.

According to Ed Young and Fellowship Church's Board:

Admission 1. Ed Young doesn't own a 10,000 square foot home. His home is ONLY 7,000 square feet.

A. Considering the fact that an average home in America is only 1,400 square feet that would mean that a 7,000 square foot home is equal to 5 average homes. In other words, 7,000 square feet is not small or meager. Instead, it is off the chain HUGE.

B. How much do you think a 7,000 square foot lake front home is worth in and around Ed Young's neighborhood? Answer: under the current depressed real estate market conditions, homes of that size are currently running at the bargain price of $2 million to $3 million dollars, depending on lot size, location, features and view. Since Young had his custom built LAKE FRONT home constructed during the peak of the last real estate market it is highly likely that the original market value was upwards of $4 million dollars, however the assessed value of the home is listed at ONLY $1.5 million. But all this only us leads to the next question.

c. What about the $240,000 per year "parsonage" allowance? Young and his board did not address that issue at all. How can one make sense of that figure? If Young's home only has a $1.5 million mortgage then his monthly payments would "ONLY" be $7,000 per month or $84,000 per year. (think about that figure for a minute...at a MINIMUM Ed Young pays nearly $84,000 per year for his mortgage). This then leads to the obvious question "what is Young doing with the other $156,000 of his "parsonage" allowance? Is he pocketing that? OR.....

Does Young have a higher mortgage than $1.5 million? A $240,000 parsonage allowance hints at a much higher mortgage, which would have been very likely during the time when the house was built. How high? Answer: $4 million. The monthly mortgage payments on a $4 million home are $20,000.

So Ed either has a much higher mortgage than he is letting on OR he's set up some kind of shell and pea business deal and is pocketing more than half of his $240,000 per year "parsonage" allowance.

No matter how you slice it, by Ed Young's own admission he lives in a HUGE, luxurious, custom built, lake front home. Those homes are never cheap.

Admission 2. Fellowship Church doesn't own a private jet they're only LEASING it.

Does leasing the private jet mean that Fellowship Church is paying next to nothing for Ed Young to fly to conferences and speak to other pastors? Not on your life!

Here are some pictures of the private jet that Fellowship Church is leasing as well as the standard interior of this model of aircraft. How much do you think it costs PER MONTH to lease an $8.4 million private jet? I'll give the answer below.







So...how much do you think it costs per month to LEASE an $8.4 million private jet? Answer: standard lease rates on a private jet per month are 1% of the cost of the jet. That means, IF Fellowship Church leased the jet with a market value of $8.4 million at the signing of the lease, then they would be paying $84,000 PER MONTH to lease that Dessault Falcon 50 Private Jet. That would equal $1,008,000 per year. Keep in mind that the lease payments DO NOT INCLUDE hangar fees, fuel costs, pilot fees or maintenance costs.

Maybe, just maybe Fellowship Church was able to negotiate a better lease rate. Maybe, just maybe they're ONLY paying $60,000 per month or maybe, just maybe they really got a good price and are ONLY paying $50,000 per month to lease the private jet. But even if they were able to save a few thousand a month does it really make things better for Ed Young? $50,000 is still a lot more than most Americans make in a year!

So, Ed Young's admissions rather than making his case have instead proven what the News 8 reporter set out to demonstrate, namely that Ed Young's luxury spending is out of control and not in keeping with a pastor's salary.

[josh]

Another article:

Ed Young Jr.'s Admissions Are More Damning Than The Original News Story

On Saturday night Ed Young and two members of Fellowship Church's Doard of Directors took the stage to 'set things straight and move on'. There's just one really big problem. The things that they admitted to are more damning than the original news story and only the most blind and unquestioningly loyal followers of Ed Young won't see through the spin that was fed to them at Saturday's dog and pony show.

According to Ed Young and Fellowship Church's Board:

Admission 1. Ed Young doesn't own a 10,000 square foot home. His home is ONLY 7,000 square feet.

A. Considering the fact that an average home in America is only 1,400 square feet that would mean that a 7,000 square foot home is equal to 5 average homes. In other words, 7,000 square feet is not small or meager. Instead, it is off the chain HUGE.

B. How much do you think a 7,000 square foot lake front home is worth in and around Ed Young's neighborhood? Answer: under the current depressed real estate market conditions, homes of that size are currently running at the bargain price of $2 million to $3 million dollars, depending on lot size, location, features and view. Since Young had his custom built LAKE FRONT home constructed during the peak of the last real estate market it is highly likely that the original market value was upwards of $4 million dollars, however the assessed value of the home is listed at ONLY $1.5 million. But all this only us leads to the next question.

c. What about the $240,000 per year "parsonage" allowance? Young and his board did not address that issue at all. How can one make sense of that figure? If Young's home only has a $1.5 million mortgage then his monthly payments would "ONLY" be $7,000 per month or $84,000 per year. (think about that figure for a minute...at a MINIMUM Ed Young pays nearly $84,000 per year for his mortgage). This then leads to the obvious question "what is Young doing with the other $156,000 of his "parsonage" allowance? Is he pocketing that? OR.....

Does Young have a higher mortgage than $1.5 million? A $240,000 parsonage allowance hints at a much higher mortgage, which would have been very likely during the time when the house was built. How high? Answer: $4 million. The monthly mortgage payments on a $4 million home are $20,000.

So Ed either has a much higher mortgage than he is letting on OR he's set up some kind of shell and pea business deal and is pocketing more than half of his $240,000 per year "parsonage" allowance.

No matter how you slice it, by Ed Young's own admission he lives in a HUGE, luxurious, custom built, lake front home. Those homes are never cheap.

Admission 2. Fellowship Church doesn't own a private jet they're only LEASING it.

Does leasing the private jet mean that Fellowship Church is paying next to nothing for Ed Young to fly to conferences and speak to other pastors? Not on your life!

Here are some pictures of the private jet that Fellowship Church is leasing as well as the standard interior of this model of aircraft. How much do you think it costs PER MONTH to lease an $8.4 million private jet? I'll give the answer below.







So...how much do you think it costs per month to LEASE an $8.4 million private jet? Answer: standard lease rates on a private jet per month are 1% of the cost of the jet. That means, IF Fellowship Church leased the jet with a market value of $8.4 million at the signing of the lease, then they would be paying $84,000 PER MONTH to lease that Dessault Falcon 50 Private Jet. That would equal $1,008,000 per year. Keep in mind that the lease payments DO NOT INCLUDE hangar fees, fuel costs, pilot fees or maintenance costs.

Maybe, just maybe Fellowship Church was able to negotiate a better lease rate. Maybe, just maybe they're ONLY paying $60,000 per month or maybe, just maybe they really got a good price and are ONLY paying $50,000 per month to lease the private jet. But even if they were able to save a few thousand a month does it really make things better for Ed Young? $50,000 is still a lot more than most Americans make in a year!

So, Ed Young's admissions rather than making his case have instead proven what the News 8 reporter set out to demonstrate, namely that Ed Young's luxury spending is out of control and not in keeping with a pastor's salary.

I think you mean, another opinion piece. I notice you didnt give a source...or did I miss it?

[admin]

On Saturday night Ed Young and two members of Fellowship Church's Doard of Directors took the stage to 'set things straight and move on'.

Here is a video of Ed's speech from last weekend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0fOQAsN ... r_embedded