Fellowship Church's "Wild" series

[delila]

I believe that Josh only cares that one person was saved. Maybe they were but at what expense? He truly only cares about the outcome of the sermon, which I couldn't give a rats ass about! I care about the welfare of the poor animals that were put on display for your entertainment purpose only.

Somebody before me said it correctly, MEGA church= MEGA $$$$$$. Who cares at what expense.
I think this church is turning into a bigger joke than it is a church. What an embarrassment to the community.

[josh]

I believe that Josh only cares that one person was saved. Maybe they were but at what expense? He truly only cares about the outcome of the sermon, which I couldn't give a rats ass about! I care about the welfare of the poor animals that were put on display for your entertainment purpose only.

Somebody before me said it correctly, MEGA church= MEGA $$$$$$. Who cares at what expense.
I think this church is turning into a bigger joke than it is a church. What an embarrassment to the community.

Granting for sake of argument that the animals are abused simply by virtue of being in a cage. I certainly consider the eternal salvation of just one person much, much more important than the well being of one animal. I tend to disagree with your notion of what constitutes abuse, but that is really beside the point.

Obviously from your comments ("...outcomes do not matter..."), you are not a follower of Christ ,which is your business I suppose. But I certainly would not put much stock in your opinion on what is and is not right for a Christian church to do when you have no "skin in the game". It would be like me going to a a meeting of American Athiests and telling them how to run their marketing campaigns.

Like I said earlier - I appreciate the stance that caged animals in all circumstances equals abuse. Nothing wrong with having a consistent view on things. That just doesnt seem to be your problem here though.

[skiing1974]

To me, if you are allowed to run a business, then you are allowed to do anything within legal rights to bring customers to that business. If a non-religious organization uses a lion for such purposes, I assume there would be an issue with that too. OK, a lion in this case, solicitations in the mailboxes happen too from many churches, advertising is advertising as far as I am concerned, but while I don't agree with it, that is what running a business is all about. Did "FC" do something illegal here?

[Common Sense Al]

Did "FC" do something illegal here?

I don't think anyone is complaining about the illegality of it, though with all the laws these days (especially regarding wild animals), who knows, maybe they did do something illegal.

But just because something is legal doesn't make it right or without problems or without controversy. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That should go without saying (but unfortunately it needs to be said nowadays).

[Pipeline]

I really don't understand a problem here. A probable local zoo lion is brought in for a religious ceremony to relay a message. The lion gets 3 squares a day and eats more meat then I do. So he's in a cage. So cruel. Big deal. He has probably been in a cage or a pen since he was a kitty kat. Is that cruel? Don't think so. Delila, have you ever had to go out and hunt food for your family so they could eat, that day, like a lion has to? didn't think so.

15 years ago my parents would buy tickets to the Ringling circus in Dallas every year, before that event grew tiresome, for the family. From the parking lot to the arena we would be hassled by PITA and other animal knuckleheads, with cruelty brochures and threats of violence to us. Really annoying.

So it was a church, you get riled. Worry about starving children instead of a fat lion. He's just a big Rug Steak.

[JKTex]

Church is business. Religion is business. Business is $$$. Most western so called Christians are hypocrites that use church and religion as a social platform and to improve their image/hide what they think others would condemn.

To state so, is blasphemy and burns the ears of the good and the saved and the better than you and I.......the little Chinese made plastic fishes on the back of their cars prove it.

Faith? Talk about glazed over eyes......

[heartsong]

Let me try to break it down a bit. I don't care if this happened any where it is wrong. Period. the fact you do it in the name of religion is offensive. The problems with the animals are: a four day old lamb was screaming in fear being so close to a natural top predator. No one has yet said to my knowledge what happened to the lamb. The lion was taunted and teased to react more "fearsome" which is just plain cruel. Also his cage was so small he could barely move around. Then you place both animals in an environment that is very far from their normal in environment. Loud speakers, lights, tons of people, strange noises. And lets see this is only the BEGINNING of what is to come. If you can't see any wrong in that I can't help you. something is broken in you.

Now and into that you did if for "christian reasons" how is behaving so unChrist like a good reason to convert anyone? If god word is not impactful enough and your minister/leader has to resort to tactics to prove a point that I can see begin to see has anything to do with Easter and Christ rising from the dead. If being show and entertaining is the only way your church can bring people in than you are not following Christ because that is the opposite of what he was about. There was no compassion in this act. No love. No patience. I do know this church I don't have anything against it before this. I believe there are a lot of wonderful churches out there that are trying to walk with Christ and I admire anyone truly trying to walk with faith. I just don't see how doing something so opposite of Christ is a good thing to win people over to him.

Wrong is wrong no matter who does it. Following someone who does something wrong and not standing up to do the right thing is also wrong. That makes these followers blind sheep with not true understanding of God, Christ or the bible. and that is sad.

[heartsong]

I really don't understand a problem here. A probable local zoo lion is brought in for a religious ceremony to relay a message. The lion gets 3 squares a day and eats more meat then I do. So he's in a cage. So cruel. Big deal. He has probably been in a cage or a pen since he was a kitty kat. Is that cruel? Don't think so. Delila, have you ever had to go out and hunt food for your family so they could eat, that day, like a lion has to? didn't think so.

15 years ago my parents would buy tickets to the Ringling circus in Dallas every year, before that event grew tiresome, for the family. From the parking lot to the arena we would be hassled by PITA and other animal knuckleheads, with cruelty brochures and threats of violence to us. Really annoying.

So it was a church, you get riled. Worry about starving children instead of a fat lion. He's just a big Rug Steak.

I can worry about both. This animal is a trained animal. It does not matter if he eats regularly or not. Doing this to him was wrong. I don't have a problem hunting for food. That is quick and to the point. You don't tease and taunt the animals you hunt. If you do then again that is not right.

[eatapper]

I originally posted this photo and caption and would like to clarify a few issues, particularly in response to Josh:
Animals that are used for entertainment purposes are very troubling for animal lovers/activists because they typically live the most unnatural, abusive lives of all animals kept in captivity. They often live in horrible conditions, are abused or drugged to perform, never get any exercise or anything close to a natural life. The shipping (I've heard this lion was shipped from California), being put in front of thousands of people, performing, etc. is very stressful for the animal and they just don't get much relief. When entertainers are done with these animals they usually just euthanize them, often in very inhumane ways. When they sometimes release them to rescue groups the animals are so unnatural and emotionally off balance, it's really disturbing to see. The USDA is in charge of regulating this industry, but you as you can imagine, are very short staffed and this is usually low priority unless someone is being egregiously abusive.

I am a Christian, I saw the sermon and understand the symbolization often used of the lion and the lamb. While this certainly was the most dramatic way this story could be told, I honestly think that the message was lost in the sensationalism of having the live animals there, watching the lamb cry, etc. My 10 year old nephew attended the service and when I asked what it was about all he could remember was the animals. As a Christian I think this is sad because Easter is the most important and holiest lesson, especially for kids who think it's about a bunny.

I am no FC hater; I was a member of the church for about 5 years. We ultimately decided that it was no longer a good fit for our family, but I certainly harbored no ill will towards the church. As a matter of fact, when I was first told that Ed was going to have a lion there, I thought it couldn't be true. I will tell you that had this happened when we were members and tithing faithfully I would have been really upset that our hard earned money was being used to purchase "props" like these.

[Common Sense Al]

Church is business. Religion is business. Business is $$$. Most western so called Christians are hypocrites that use church and religion as a social platform and to improve their image/hide what they think others would condemn.

While running a church and servicing the community certainly requires some business dealings, let's not assume all church's are out there mainly to make money and bring in the bug bucks. In fact, if you are looking for a good church, then make sure their 1st objective is spreading the truth of the Gospel and NOT not making money. There are definitely churches out there that prioritize spreading the truth over the "business aspects".

And if one is looking for a church as a form of entertainment (or going to a church for entertainment), then he/she should be looking for or going to something other than a church.

[Common Sense Al]

If god word is not impactful enough and your minister/leader has to resort to tactics to prove a point that I can see begin to see has anything to do with Easter and Christ rising from the dead. If being show and entertaining is the only way your church can bring people in than you are not following Christ because that is the opposite of what he was about.

Well said! It seems the real message of Easter gets more distorted and lost every year.

[eatapper]

WFAA Channel 8 will run the story at 10:00 tonight and Ed Young as well as representatives from Flower Mound Humane Society will be interviewed.

[Uther]

I don't see what the problem is with some christian people wanting to feed a hungry lion? Or do you want the lion to starve? That's also inhumane. Sheep have been bred for generation to serve as a food source - they are used to it.

[josh]

I originally posted this photo and caption and would like to clarify a few issues, particularly in response to Josh:
Animals that are used for entertainment purposes are very troubling for animal lovers/activists because they typically live the most unnatural, abusive lives of all animals kept in captivity. They often live in horrible conditions, are abused or drugged to perform, never get any exercise or anything close to a natural life. The shipping (I've heard this lion was shipped from California), being put in front of thousands of people, performing, etc. is very stressful for the animal and they just don't get much relief. When entertainers are done with these animals they usually just euthanize them, often in very inhumane ways. When they sometimes release them to rescue groups the animals are so unnatural and emotionally off balance, it's really disturbing to see. The USDA is in charge of regulating this industry, but you as you can imagine, are very short staffed and this is usually low priority unless someone is being egregiously abusive.

I am a Christian, I saw the sermon and understand the symbolization often used of the lion and the lamb. While this certainly was the most dramatic way this story could be told, I honestly think that the message was lost in the sensationalism of having the live animals there, watching the lamb cry, etc. My 10 year old nephew attended the service and when I asked what it was about all he could remember was the animals. As a Christian I think this is sad because Easter is the most important and holiest lesson, especially for kids who think it's about a bunny.

I am no FC hater; I was a member of the church for about 5 years. We ultimately decided that it was no longer a good fit for our family, but I certainly harbored no ill will towards the church. As a matter of fact, when I was first told that Ed was going to have a lion there, I thought it couldn't be true. I will tell you that had this happened when we were members and tithing faithfully I would have been really upset that our hard earned money was being used to purchase "props" like these.

The old switch a roo tactic.
You list all of the PETA talking points: Unnatural...abusive...horrible conditions...inhumane...emotionally off balance... drugged...no exercise...And you somehow equate that to THIS particular case on the basis of what?

My 10, 7, and 3 year old also go to church. They attend the age appropriate classes and could easily explain to me the real meaning of Easter. Had they gone to the adult service then I suspect they would have been caught up in the animals as well. I fail to see the point here. I could read many of Jesus' parables directly from the bible and my kids would not understand them without me explaining.

World aid officials estimate that by the end of 2012 Fellowship Church will be the leading provider of meals to orphanages in Haiti. FCs Rapid Response team was one of the first in Lancaster to assist in food, water distribution as well as comforting those who lost everything. It seems many here want to turn this in to a "they should spend their money on real church stuff instead" type debate not knowing the millions that FC gives each year around the world.

And I will say this again because I think it has gotten lost (on purpose no doubt) on many here. Creative messaging works. It brings those who are lost to FC to hear the Word of God preached in a compelling way (not the only way...granted). And hearing of the Word leads to changed lives for eternity. It is completely foreign to me how anyone claiming to be a Christian can have a problem with the message when the end result is a new follower of Christ who will then turn around and impact those in their neighborhood. I have no doubt that there are other ways to preach and teach and no dobut those work for many people. I would never condemn those churches that simply read from the text and nothing more. In fact I podcast one such pastor locally here every week.

Does Fellowship need your approval. No. Doesnt need mine either. When people stop committing their lives to Christ then I suppose pastor Ed and the leadership of FC will do something different.

[admin]

Grapevine church under fire for using animals at Easter service