Komen foundation & Planned Parenthood

[skiing1974]

Al, it is an insult on parents actually talking to and teaching kids about sex to think that the teaching would go as you have it above. Given your simplistic take on it, I can see where your scenario makes sense, even I'd rather go your Catholic route if I were to teach the kids the right from wrong by using your one sentence scenario. Sorry to dissapoint you, but birth control is a part of the proper teaching that doesn't involve religion, but takes into account reality, as caymen described.

[Common Sense Al]

Sorry to dissapoint you, but birth control is a part of the proper teaching that doesn't involve religion, but takes into account reality, as caymen described.

Well I think if you go "your route", then you're insulting kids... saying they're all failures because they need birth control because they can't control themselves (as if they are just wild animals with no control)... and you are devaluing their human dignity. How well has this line of thought worked out? Seems things have gotten worse to me. It seems people have become more selfish (out to pleasure themselves and see other people as sex objects)... it also seems there are more broken families and fatherless kids.

[Uther]

Hey Tim Tebow (Al), who teaches women that because there is birth control, that it is OK to have sex with anyone and everyone? Where the hell does that logic come from sir? Just from the fact that there is birth control available? Just another of your logics to prove your points?

Clearly I don't have the decoder ring for this message.

[skiing1974]

That line, or rather your interpretation of it (failures? ha! not sure what reality that definition is from) works very well for millions of people not guided by religious definitions of morality in the cases of sex between adults, before a piece of paper is signed between them.
Uther, I was just asking Al how the availability of birth control is a pass for women to go have sex with anyone and everyone and who really applies that teaching to their kids?

[Common Sense Al]

That line, or rather your interpretation of it (failures? ha! not sure what reality that definition is from) works very well for millions of people not guided by religious definitions of morality in the cases of sex between adults, before a piece of paper is signed between them.

Wow! You think it's working well? That's pretty sad if you can't see the cultural, familial, and moral decline of our society. I guess you think it's good that people (mostly women) are seen as sex objects to be used? That more and more people go around having sex with multiple partners because they are "protected" by birth control? That sex partners are like disposable objects? And you think that all this is working well for healthy families and especially for children? And I'm living in my own little world?

[Uther]

That line, or rather your interpretation of it (failures? ha! not sure what reality that definition is from) works very well for millions of people not guided by religious definitions of morality in the cases of sex between adults, before a piece of paper is signed between them.
Uther, I was just asking Al how the availability of birth control is a pass for women to go have sex with anyone and everyone and who really applies that teaching to their kids?

I'm sure you know that Al, as a devout and practicing Catholic, does not condone, promote, or endorse the use of birth contraceptives, except for the "natural rhythm" method. Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized.

It is just one of the myriad ways that the Catholic church makes people living in today's society into sinners.

[skiing1974]

Based on all my posts here, you well know the last thing I compare women to are objects. It is you who feel as if you know better about their body than they do. All I am saying is that with proper teaching that includes birth control, many unwanted pregnancies will be prevented. How you connect that teaching to "hey, girl, go have sex with anyone now" only you know. Do more women have sex because of the pill? I guess so, but I have no data on it. Do also many women use the birth control and have a single partner over many years? Absolutely.
For someone pro-life, shouldn't you be all for protecting unwanted pregnancies with birth control, as some of those unwated pregnancies will end in abortion? You are living in your own world if you feel that your route not including birth control will help with less abortions performed. Sex will happen no matter what you think. Be responsible (among many other things that should fall into place, including birth control).

[skiing1974]

I know Uther. I'd like to hear how Al and Catholic Church argue the point that birth control lowers the risk of abortions being performed? But given they don't recognize third of the words in that question, doubt there is an answer that takes into account real world.

[caymen]

"Respondents who had received instruction on both abstinence and birth control were older at first sex than their peers who had received no formal instruction and were more likely to have used condoms or other contraceptives at first sex; they also had healthier partnerships. Those who had received only abstinence instruction were more likely to have delayed first intercourse than were those who had had no sex education, but abstinence instruction was not associated with any of the other protective behaviors at first sex. Moreover, condom use at first sex was significantly less likely among females who had had only abstinence instruction than among those who had received information about both abstinence and birth control. The study found no relationship between sex education and current sexual behaviors, suggesting the need for ongoing education after the onset of sexual activity."

from- SEX EDUCATION LINKED TO DELAY IN FIRST SEX
-http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2012/03/08/index.html

[skiing1974]

caymen, but abstinence wasn't taught under strict Catholic guidelines...now was it?

[caymen]

No, of course not, lucky me though I was also raised Catholic, we didn't go the strict route ( but then again my mom couldn't take communion as a divorcee' so we were a bit more lax) . But I will point out my (alter boy) brother who was raised by his very strict, traditional Catholic father was married at seventeen so he could take care of his expecting girl friend and child. I learned a lot watching that play out.
Several members of my own family went with abstinence only and all of them have kids that ended getting married because of pregnancy. Every single one of them. The family members that taught birth control and real sex education did't get virgins either, but so far not a one of them has had a premarital or unwanted pregnancy. Do I have spell out which I find preferable.

I realize abstinence only doesn't always fail but I see it fail too often. Sorry to say parents aren't always aware of what of their kids are really doing and whether or not they use contraception. Often moms know more than dads.

[Common Sense Al]

I'm sure you know that Al, as a devout and practicing Catholic, does not condone, promote, or endorse the use of birth contraceptives, except for the "natural rhythm" method. Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized.

Do you really think that is what the Catholic church teaches?

Anyway, I do have to say, for the sake of those who don't know and those might actually believe what Uther just said, that the above is NOT what the church teaches. Do not get your info on the Catholic Church from people who don't know anything about it or who have a vendetta against it... and that includes the secular media!

[skiing1974]

thank that God of yours media is secular! Otherwise, I'd need to be able to block Al-Jazeera's equivalent TV station, whose radio waves are broadcast by Catholics.

[Common Sense Al]

I know Uther. I'd like to hear how Al and Catholic Church argue the point that birth control lowers the risk of abortions being performed? But given they don't recognize third of the words in that question, doubt there is an answer that takes into account real world.

As I've said before, birth control does more harm than good. It is those who support it that are not seeing the whole picture and don't see how the use of birth control promotes immorality and ultimately more unwanted pregnancies, more abortions, and more problems than it solves. Sure, it is simple to think that birth control is the solution... but if you are truly in the "real world", then you'd recognize the unforeseen side-effects and consequences... hence, it is not the Catholic Church that is not living in the real world, it's the secular world that is blinded to the truth.

[skiing1974]

great way to start the weekend!
People are going to have sex, do you and your Church accept that? If not, then what is the reality you live in?
If yes, then how does birth control increase the number of unwanted pregnancies from the world where there would be no birth control, but people will have sex regardless?