Komen foundation & Planned Parenthood

[caymen]

"I have not read anyone on here who wants to control YOUR body. We simply want the same protections for that separate and distinct body inside you is all. If it were merely an issue of pulling teeth or having an apendix removed nobody would care one whit. Unfortunately, it is another human being that is completely distinct from you that causes the outrage."


It's a fabulous thing to want to save babies. I have real hard time with those who feel such a great calling saving unborn babies and yet feel they can turn their backs on those that have been born. Where is the compassion for those same babies the minute they are born to a mom not prepared ( whether financially or emotionally) to take good care of them. It's wonderful thing when a baby is saved but what about making sure the baby has a shot seeing a doctor, getting the food they need to grow into a healthy adult. How many of the pro-life group see to it that those mothers and babies have the food and healthcare they need? Instead they rail against any type of public assistance worried that they will take advantage or live off the system. They rail against those who they feel haven't lived up their personal responsibility.

Those who truly care about mothers, babies, should realize that when PP is shut down there will be a gap in women's healthcare coverage, particularly among those at risk for abortion, the young, the low income. This crap about $9 birth control pills is crap, no woman can just walk into Walmart or Target and get the pill, they need a doctor to prescribe it. There are more costs involved than just buying the pill. So PP becomes a target of the "pro-life" movement. Where is the care for the pregnant mom, who pays to get those babies into a pediatrician, who makes sure they have formula in their bottles, food on their plates later, makes sure they have warm clothes and the basic necessities. This is about punishing bad girls who dare to have sex when they aren't married, or when they are poor. This fight is about morality and it has been made very clear those immoral women don't deserve any help, they should only put an aspirin between their knees and learn to say no. That's some compassion there and really speaks volumes about how much those babies are cared for until they are born, after that they are on they and their mother's are on their own. Babies cannot help who they are conceived by or born to, punish the mothers and you quite effectively punish the children. No one likes abortion, no one feels that women who aren't prepared should be out having babies, but those are realities and will continue to be. Women are often at the mercy ( or feel they are) of the men they associate with, he wants sex, he gets sex and she is left holding the result, sometimes with no help from anywhere. How does a young mother working a minimum wage job care for herself and her child? How does she manage to take off work to birth and care for an infant? No one cares at that point as long as she has that baby.

[Hog Caller]

The Komen Foundation has discovered the ultimate lose-lose situation for a charity to be in. They might as well split and reorganize under two separate names. Actually, it could turn into a major win-win thing for them. They could have one organization that supports butchering babies and one that is in opposition to the baby butcher organization. Then they could have fund raiser compititions to see which group is the most dedicated (financially) to prevent and fight breast cancer. The biggest givers could have bragging rights for a year until the next competition.

[josh]

Those issues are not mutually exclusive. People who are pro-life with regard to abortion are not anti-life with regard to poor families. That is not a valid comparison. If you know of someone like that I would be interested to see it. Lets stop killing unborn children first. Because there is no probability of survival when it comes to abortion and while you bring up very good points about lack of care for poor children, being poor is certainly NOT a 100% chance of death like abortion is. Point being, stop the killing and then lets focus on addressing the other issue. People have limited resources, both financially and time. I see no problem with using the bulk of those resources to first stop the killing. I have no doubt that once that stops, that very same compassion will result in resources flowing to the situations you described.

Having said that, there are multiple organizations that do address the needs of those mothers who do not want to kill their children, regardless of their lot in life. Most are run by the very same relgious organizations you seem to claim are indifferent to the cause.

You bring up a very good point: "Babies cannot help who they are born to...". I agree. They should neither be forced to suffer through lack of proper medical care after they are born, and they certainly dont deserve to die becuase of who their parents were. Lets protect them at all stages of development. Their location, size, level of development should not matter.

[Common Sense Al]

It's a fabulous thing to want to save babies. I have real hard time with those who feel such a great calling saving unborn babies and yet feel they can turn their backs on those that have been born. Where is the compassion for those same babies the minute they are born to a mom not prepared ( whether financially or emotionally) to take good care of them.

Are you trying to say that if someone thinks there is a lack of support for a baby then that justifies killing it?

As for the rest of your rant, a lot of it is bogus. You say people don't care after the baby is born, but that's just mostly a load of bull. There is support available (though you could argue if there is 'enough') through organizations and the gov't. And adoption is almost always an option. I hear there is quite a waiting list for people wanting to adopt.

The bottom line is that if a couple is going to have sex, then they should be prepared to support the possible outcome. It's ultimately THEIR responsibility, not the gov'ts and not someone else's... and if they screw it up, then taking the life of an innocent is not the answer and it's not within their moral rights to do so.

[caymen]

No lack of support doesn't justify killing a baby, no one said any such thing. What I am saying is the very same who rail against birth control and social programs are the same one telling people they need to keep their babies. Adoption is great and far more likely if you are a young white woman, how many people are out to adopt any child, regardless of age or skin color?


"Out of all the children under age 18 (83,714,107 children total) there are 2,058,915 adopted children and 4, 384,581 stepchildren.
This translates to 2.5 percent of all children being adopted.
Interestingly, the regions of the country were all pretty similar in terms of how many adopted children. Delaware, California, Texas and Louisiana had the smallest number of adoptions (approx. 2.0 percent in each) and Alaska had the most (3.9 percent).
More girls are adopted than boys. The census explains this because more single women adopt girls more than boys and that internationally, girls are easier to adopt than boys.
The race breakdown follows: 58 percent of all adopted children are White, 16 percent of all adopted children are Black, 14 percent of all adopted children are Hispanic and 7.4 percent of all adopted children are Asian." -http://www.pregnantteenhelp.org/options/adoption-statistics/

Yes I will argue there is not enough financial assistance for those who choose to keep their babies. I personally know several young women who face this reality. They kept their babies because they did not choose abortion, but they also are not able to provide those babies with healthcare when they are sick or a coat when it's cold. I also know that cost was a factor in lack of birth control. They didn't want to involve parents in their personal decision to become sexually active (for whatever reason- perhaps this is a root cause) . Whether or not you or anyone else approves is moot. Magical or wishful thinking won't solve the problem. The young women I know that chose to keep their babies face financial difficulties clothing, feeding and providing medical care for their babies, it's especially hard if they don't have supportive family.

"The bottom line is that if a couple is going to have sex, then they should be prepared to support the possible outcome. It's ultimately THEIR responsibility, not the gov'ts and not someone else's... and if they screw it up, then taking the life of an innocent is not the answer and it's not within their moral rights to do so."

Yes they SHOULD, why didn't someone think of that before? The reality is unplanned pregnancies happen and no wishful thinking or lecturing or shaming will change that. Comprehensive sex education ( that presents all the options from abstinence to proper use of birth control) and availability of affordable healthcare/birth control is the key to prevention of unwanted pregnancy and abortion.
You flat out state that it's their responsibility if they screw up,that attitude is exactly what I was talking about. Where's the pro-responsibility attitude when those women try to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. My problem with your position, it is their body and you have no problem insisting they are stewards of it in a way you see fit- you want to take responsibility for making sure that child is born, but after it is the responsibility falls back onto the mother.
If you feel very strongly about the lives of babies then you must be willing to help those children ( and their ever so irresponsible mothers-/ sarcasm ) after they arrive.

[Pipeline]

If you feel very strongly about the lives of babies then you must be willing to help those children ( and their ever so irresponsible mothers-/ sarcasm ) after they arrive.

Just "piping in". Excellent point. Are you ready to be a Foster parent yet. Easy to bitch about PP and "expound" with "holier than thou opinions", but unless you are willing to "help", with fostering some babies, or cutting a check, your opinions, about PP, essentially are worthless, and mean nothing, as do mine.

[josh]

No lack of support doesn't justify killing a baby, no one said any such thing. What I am saying is the very same who rail against birth control and social programs are the same one telling people they need to keep their babies. Adoption is great and far more likely if you are a young white woman, how many people are out to adopt any child, regardless of age or skin color?


"Out of all the children under age 18 (83,714,107 children total) there are 2,058,915 adopted children and 4, 384,581 stepchildren.
This translates to 2.5 percent of all children being adopted.
Interestingly, the regions of the country were all pretty similar in terms of how many adopted children. Delaware, California, Texas and Louisiana had the smallest number of adoptions (approx. 2.0 percent in each) and Alaska had the most (3.9 percent).
More girls are adopted than boys. The census explains this because more single women adopt girls more than boys and that internationally, girls are easier to adopt than boys.
The race breakdown follows: 58 percent of all adopted children are White, 16 percent of all adopted children are Black, 14 percent of all adopted children are Hispanic and 7.4 percent of all adopted children are Asian." -http://www.pregnantteenhelp.org/options/adoption-statistics/

Yes I will argue there is not enough financial assistance for those who choose to keep their babies. I personally know several young women who face this reality. They kept their babies because they did not choose abortion, but they also are not able to provide those babies with healthcare when they are sick or a coat when it's cold. I also know that cost was a factor in lack of birth control. They didn't want to involve parents in their personal decision to become sexually active (for whatever reason- perhaps this is a root cause) . Whether or not you or anyone else approves is moot. Magical or wishful thinking won't solve the problem. The young women I know that chose to keep their babies face financial difficulties clothing, feeding and providing medical care for their babies, it's especially hard if they don't have supportive family.

"The bottom line is that if a couple is going to have sex, then they should be prepared to support the possible outcome. It's ultimately THEIR responsibility, not the gov'ts and not someone else's... and if they screw it up, then taking the life of an innocent is not the answer and it's not within their moral rights to do so."

Yes they SHOULD, why didn't someone think of that before? The reality is unplanned pregnancies happen and no wishful thinking or lecturing or shaming will change that. Comprehensive sex education ( that presents all the options from abstinence to proper use of birth control) and availability of affordable healthcare/birth control is the key to prevention of unwanted pregnancy and abortion.
You flat out state that it's their responsibility if they screw up,that attitude is exactly what I was talking about. Where's the pro-responsibility attitude when those women try to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. My problem with your position, it is their body and you have no problem insisting they are stewards of it in a way you see fit- you want to take responsibility for making sure that child is born, but after it is the responsibility falls back onto the mother.
If you feel very strongly about the lives of babies then you must be willing to help those children ( and their ever so irresponsible mothers-/ sarcasm ) after they arrive.

What, in your mind, qualifies as doing my part to help poor children so that I am allowed to be pro-life with regard to abortion? Is it a magical dollar amount given, or time or what?

[Common Sense Al]

No lack of support doesn't justify killing a baby, no one said any such thing.

That's good.

What I am saying is the very same who rail against birth control and social programs are the same one telling people they need to keep their babies.

That may be true for some, but not all, and ultimately it's irrelevant because it doesn't make slaughtering innocent people OK.

Adoption is great and far more likely if you are a young white woman, how many people are out to adopt any child, regardless of age or skin color?

It is one option that doesn't result in killing someone. But even if it wasn't an option at all, again, it doesn't justify abortion.

"Out of all the children under age 18 (83,714,107 children total) there are 2,058,915 adopted children and 4, 384,581 stepchildren.
This translates to 2.5 percent of all children being adopted.

Interesting adoption stats, but again, doesn't matter if you're trying to rationalize abortion.

Yes I will argue there is not enough financial assistance for those who choose to keep their babies. I personally know several young women who face this reality.

You could also argue there's not enough financial assistance for many parents who wanted to get pregnant in the first place. That's life. Should we kill those children because life is tough?

They kept their babies because they did not choose abortion, but they also are not able to provide those babies with healthcare when they are sick or a coat when it's cold.

That's sad... but if you read my other posts, you'll know I'm in favor of universal healthcare.

I also know that cost was a factor in lack of birth control. They didn't want to involve parents in their personal decision to become sexually active (for whatever reason- perhaps this is a root cause) . Whether or not you or anyone else approves is moot. Magical or wishful thinking won't solve the problem. The young women I know that chose to keep their babies face financial difficulties clothing, feeding and providing medical care for their babies, it's especially hard if they don't have supportive family.

Life is rarely easy but there are people to help.

The reality is unplanned pregnancies happen and no wishful thinking or lecturing or shaming will change that.

Actually, applying some morality (like don't have sex until you get married) can definitely change that... it won't stop completely, but it can help a lot.

Comprehensive sex education ( that presents all the options from abstinence to proper use of birth control) and availability of affordable healthcare/birth control is the key to prevention of unwanted pregnancy and abortion.

Artificial birth control makes the problem worse.

You flat out state that it's their responsibility if they screw up,that attitude is exactly what I was talking about. Where's the pro-responsibility attitude when those women try to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

The Loreto House in Denton, which I have supported by giving $$$, saves babies and helps mothers AFTER they have their child. I don't know why you seem to think no one does this???

If you feel very strongly about the lives of babies then you must be willing to help those children ( and their ever so irresponsible mothers-/ sarcasm ) after they arrive.

Everyone should donate to charity and give... and I do.

[Common Sense Al]

Just "piping in". Excellent point. Are you ready to be a Foster parent yet. Easy to bitch about PP and "expound" with "holier than thou opinions", but unless you are willing to "help", with fostering some babies, or cutting a check, your opinions, about PP, essentially are worthless, and mean nothing, as do mine.

I have cut checks... but you're right, my opinion doesn't matter. It's the truth that ultimately matters (of which my opinion is based).

But what people give is irrelevant. Even if they gave nothing it wouldn't justify abortion. Abortion is not right or wrong because of what other people do or give. Abortion is wrong because it's the direct taking of innocent human life... so rationalize all you want, but the facts that actually matter don't change.

[caymen]

Be pro-life all you want. No one says you have to like abortion. I don't like it though I am firmly pro-choice. Never had an abortion, well beyond the possibility now anyway, my own personal experiences never led me down that path but I do understand how some feel it's their best option. ( whether that is the reality or not) I have known women who chose to have abortions, there were times I understood completely and there were times I was outraged and disgusted but the fact is they live with their decisions.
Though I contribute to women and babies and their care I also know that I am not going to adopt a baby, or take in additional children. No one not you , not me, is capable of making sure every unwanted child will be cared for and loved. If need be I will help those close to me but the fact is my personal feelings about abortion don't prevent them, birth control can. If I know a young woman is flirting with the chance of an unwanted pregnancy I refer them to PP or their personal doctor. I can't control their sex lives, I can make sure they know they have many options and places to find birth control. I don't appreciate that an organization that provides healthcare for women is under attack, the facts are 3% of the services provided at PP is abortion, yet the entire program is under attack. Whether you personally like contraception or use it is not relevant. Whether you feel that women should only have sex for procreation is not relevant, nor are your feelings regarding pre-marital sex. We have to tackle the problem of unwanted pregnancy from a practical place, the reality of it is that women will be sexually active just like men. And those who are making an effort to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy are having more roadblock thrown at them.
I am woman, I have two children that took me some real effort to get here. I am very sympathetic those who desire children but can't have their own. I feared I might be one them at one time. I love babies and children but I can't save them all anymore than any other person here can. I can help educate young women ( and their partners) about how to prevent an unwanted pregnancy ( whether or not I think they should be having sex). I can help support agencies that provide for mother's and their children and I can promote the use of those agencies by women and their partners.

"In Texas, 14 Planned Parenthood-affiliated clinics provide abortions, according to information on Planned Parenthood’s website. Wheat said its 51 other clinics in the state focus on preventive services, including the provision of contraception and screenings for cervical and breast cancer. The organization also offers some services for men. " -

"In a telephone interview, Williams confirmed that abortion clinics do not receive state or federal funding. In an email, she said the clinics that closed had each received state funding in 2011.

Separately, she said that had those clinics provided abortions, they would not have been eligible for state money."

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stateme ... ding-clos/

Women in Texas who choose to have an abortion pay for it themselves. The attack on PP is about women and legislated morality.
It's great that you support universal healthcare- kudos, that is very helpful for men and women and children. And it's great that you support organizations that help women and their children, again kudos. But you must realize that many who hold the same position regarding PP and abortion do not. Sexuality cannot and should not be legislated, we can't control what people do with their bodies, the reality of it is, education and prevention are the best tools to cut down on unwanted pregnancy. I promise you FEW women treat abortion lightly. I won't say none because the ONE woman I know of that did is now a highly visible pro-life advocate, apparently her previously flippant attitude toward abortion caught up with her. If I had as many needless abortions as she did I would be trying to make up for it somehow too. ( she chose not to take birth control or use any kind of protection though they were readily available to her just like the rest of us- we had a PP at our disposal.)

[Common Sense Al]

No one not you , not me, is capable of making sure every unwanted child will be cared for and loved.

I can't help but think that you repeating this constantly makes me think that you think it's OK to kill someone who someone else determines is "unwanted" or "unloved"? Why would you keep saying this except as a rationalization for abortion?

We have to tackle the problem of unwanted pregnancy from a practical place, the reality of it is that women will be sexually active just like men. And those who are making an effort to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy are having more roadblock thrown at them.

The best way to tackle this problem is not with birth control. You keep throwing out stuff that basically says "go have sex with everyone you want as long as you use birth control" and the problem will only get worse. The people who think they are making the problem better by telling people it's OK to have sex as long as you use birth control are actually doing the opposite of what they think they're doing. They are NOT helping. The answer is to give people true dignity by telling them that sex is sacred, and has a special purpose, is for your spouse only, and should never be abused or used for purely selfish purposes... but we can't educate about that because that's involves religion and morality... you might be able to take the religion out of it, but not the morality.

Women in Texas who choose to have an abortion pay for it themselves. The attack on PP is about women and legislated morality.

Good... we should legislate morality when it comes to murder... or do you want to get rid of the murder laws?

...the reality of it is, education and prevention are the best tools to cut down on unwanted pregnancy.

I would agree, but we have much different views on what the education should be.

I promise you FEW women treat abortion lightly. I won't say none because the ONE woman I know of that did is now a highly visible pro-life advocate, apparently her previously flippant attitude toward abortion caught up with her. If I had as many needless abortions as she did I would be trying to make up for it somehow too. ( she chose not to take birth control or use any kind of protection though they were readily available to her just like the rest of us- we had a PP at our disposal.)

I never said women take abortion lightly. I'm glad that woman you speak of is a pro-life advocate now!

Anyway, if PP really cared about women, they wouldn't be performing abortions in the first place.

[Uther]

Yesterday afternoon, local news had a piece on Komen's financial struggles in light of their Planned Parnethood decision. Signups for the races are down 30-40%, as well as are the donations.

Thought I saw it sometime last week (or even before that?) on WFAA 10 o'clock news. Last night had an item that the CEO (Brinker) may have to resign in the wake of the "scandal."

[skiing1974]

Hey Tim Tebow (Al), who teaches women that because there is birth control, that it is OK to have sex with anyone and everyone? Where the hell does that logic come from sir? Just from the fact that there is birth control available? Just another of your logics to prove your points?

[josh]

Caymen
I appreciate your thoughts on this and agree with your sentiments on most. However, there is no reason, moral or othewise, to link the two issues together: abortions vs. providing for children after birth. The "rightness" or "wrongness" of one makes no difference to the other. It is wrong to take the life of an innocent human being without proper justification. Abortion takes the life of an innocent human being. That does not mean that the lack of care available to certain very poor women is not a travesty that deserves our attention, but it really has no impact on whether or not abortion takes the life of an innocent human being. And I am sorry, but a mother that is poor and "may not" be able to care for the baby is not proper justification in my book. I am sorry to hear that it is in you book.

[Common Sense Al]

Hey Tim Tebow (Al), who teaches women that because there is birth control, that it is OK to have sex with anyone and everyone?

You have to apply a little common sense and logic to "decode' what kids & people actually hear. I'm good at that, hence my username. Note that it is not "Tim Tebow".

Example:
Parent: "Don't have sex, but if you do, here's a condom."
Kid hears: "Cool. I can have sex as long as I have the condom!"