Komen foundation & Planned Parenthood

[Hog Caller]

One question for both sides of the argument: is our culture better off now than it was before the Pill and before Roe v. Wade?

Is the illegitimacy rate lower?

Are there fewer broken families - or fewer families that never formed?

Are our prisons less full of spiritually / emotionally stunted human beings who never had a proper upbringing?

Are there fewer broken hearts and wounded people - especially wounded women?

Think about the state of affairs in our country and in the world. Has contraception, free love, and abortion brought us to Utopia?
You noticed that too, huh? There is a problem that
From my perspective, things have gotten MUCH worse since the advent of the Pill, the legalization of abortion on a national level, and since free love was accepted as all well and good.

Can any of you say we are better off as a society since these changes?

I suppose women have more choices, but what have many of those choices wrought?

How has our culture developed since things became more loose morally in the USA? Are we a better people than we were just a few decades ago?

You noticed that too, huh?

[CopperCanyonResident]

One question for both sides of the argument: is our culture better off now than it was before the Pill and before Roe v. Wade?

Is the illegitimacy rate lower?

Are there fewer broken families - or fewer families that never formed?

Are our prisons less full of spiritually / emotionally stunted human beings who never had a proper upbringing?

Are there fewer broken hearts and wounded people - especially wounded women?

Think about the state of affairs in our country and in the world. Has contraception, free love, and abortion brought us to Utopia?
You noticed that too, huh? There is a problem that
From my perspective, things have gotten MUCH worse since the advent of the Pill, the legalization of abortion on a national level, and since free love was accepted as all well and good.

Can any of you say we are better off as a society since these changes?

I suppose women have more choices, but what have many of those choices wrought?

How has our culture developed since things became more loose morally in the USA? Are we a better people than we were just a few decades ago?

You noticed that too, huh?

I cannot help but think that everyone knows in their hearts that we are very much on the wrong track as a country: morally, econonomically, politically, and spiritually.

We would do well to reflect on where we are, and ask ourselves why we are in such a sad state of affairs in the US.

I know folks have differing views on the issue covered here, and I can understand the view of those who differ with me and those who agree with me. I understand their sense of fairness and equality that forms the basis of their views.

But there is one thing NO ONE in this exchange can deny and that is that we are very much on the wrong track. CS Lewis observed that if you are headed in the wrong direction, there is little use in continuing in that wrong direction with the aim of making "Progress." One must go back to the point where one went wrong, and get back on the right track.

Where is that point where we went wrong as a country?

"An error in the beginning is an error indeed." - attributed to St. Thomas Aquinas - too tired & lazy to hunt it down, though.

PS - if you took from my notes above as indications that I think myself super holy, holier than thou, etc., please do not take it that way. I am under no delusion about the existence of my personal failings, which have been on full display in this venue. I offer the observations above as statements of fact that are independent of me and my many, many failings. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[Hog Caller]

No fault here. I think what you've said is right on!

[CopperCanyonResident]

No fault here. I think what you've said is right on!

Thank you Soooey calling neighbor.

I wish others would give some input. I am dead serious when I write the above. We are very much on the wrong track, and I suspect nearly everyone who is paying attention knows it.

The argument about abortion never ends, and all the while we are falling headlong into the abyss.

Why?

If we had the moral sense of past generations, I promise you we would not be in such a sorry state. We can only be defeated by our own moral weakness. No nation can overcome us from without. We can only be defeated from within. And oh how many folks are within our borders and share our citizenship that are working toward our demise.

Where are they? Who are they?

They are in the DC establishment - especially in the Democrat party (but there are plenty in the Republican party too - you know, like Lindsey Graham). They are professors in our universities. They absolutely control the colleges of education at our Universities (and that is no accident). They are associated with philanthropic foundations in the Western countries. The are all over the UN. They run the law schools and schools of medicine in the US. They have overrun the mainline protestant churches, and have been working hard to take control of hierarchy in the Roman Catholic Church. They are unrepentant domestic terrorists like our Presiden's friends Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dorne (both either Profs / education activists I would remind you). They are bureaucrats in the local ISDs. They are sometimes your neighbors.

You can spot them by identifying one trait that is consistent across all of the above: a haughty, intellectual pride.

You shall know them by their works. You shall know them by their stiff-necked pride.

[YellowRose]

Agreed CopperCanyonResident. Had this discussion with some friends from church that our Federal Government has done such a great job at telling the people that they will be the people's safety net. FDR set up the Welfare program to help those who were starving. Now we mostly see abuse of the system. It's getting almost impossible for Church's to help the needy and poor with money since the People are taxed so heavily and the majority find it hard to tithe. Social Security should have never been allowed to happen, as what we are seeing today with the 52 percent paying for the 48 percent who do not put into the system. What will it be like for our children and the future generations? Ayn Rand said it best: The Able and Willing To Work will have to support the Able and Unwilling to Work.

Sharia Law is infiltrating our Universities with their ideology and money. And corruption in our politicians knows no bipartisanship.

Yes. America has been derailed. Unfortunately, we're just another Roman Empire and CC you nailed it when you identified the haughty, the intellectual and the stiffed-neck as one of the many root causes. It's Biblical and forewarning of our demise if the People do not make a stand now. In God we should trust.

[Uther]

Where is that point where we went wrong as a country?

"An error in the beginning is an error indeed." - attributed to St. Thomas Aquinas

That is a delightful juxtaposition - and I forgot what one calls it when a possible answer is exposed through accidental reasoning.

Or one can take the stance that there is no "point where we went wrong" and that humanity has been simply evolving and adapting to ever changing circumstances - always badly, since we are destined to make errors. And that we fail to adapt fast enough, so we lament what we perceive as a "kinder, gentler past" until we are faced with the brutal reality of what the past were like, not for the select few, but for humanity as a whole.

[Hog Caller]

Rehibitating humanity is like rehabilitating a skunk. You can remove a skunk from his natural habitat and help him to clean up his act. With all good intention you can give him a really good bath and even use conditioner on him. After you towel him down and comb all his fur and trim him so that he looks like a bIg two-toned chipmunk, you perfume him and rename him fluffy. After a short time his true nature as a skunk will manefest itself -- probably as soon as you let the dog in. Man is no different than fluffy. We were all born sinners with a sin nature that manifests itself in our thoughts and actions. We have a human nature that comes from being created in God's image and we basically want to do what is right and good, but that human nature is constantly at war with the sin nature. Some days the human goodwill nature wins, and sometimes it dominates for a period of time, but on other days the sin nature wins and most people regret when it wins out, but it wins nonetheless. That is how man is similar to Fluffy, we can be good, and even harmless, as long
as you don't get on our bad side. Usually, when mankind faces a crisis he can somewhat get his act back together and actually do what is best for the majority, but as soon as times become good again then greed again takes charge of human nature and then the rule of the day returns to "it's all about me and what I want". Why has society been evolving downward, because we are man and we have a sin nature. Why does Fluffy start stinking again, because he is a skunk.

[sandy brake]

Poor mankind. Perhaps when his evolution catches up with womankind, a kinder, gentler humankind will evolve.

[skiing1974]

Agree Pig Sooey.
On the other hand, for my dear friend CCR, what would you change and put in place and take out if you were running the land to put it back to where it was and how would you address the fact that population isn't the same as it was back then, starting with us damn immigrants who came and certainly contributed in all positive and negative ways to change the land? I am just curious, I certainly respect most of your posts, especially the last few on this topic here, thus, I'd love to hear. Is it just another Utopia in 2012 or...?
Regards,

[CopperCanyonResident]

On the other hand, for my dear friend CCR, what would you change and put in place and take out if you were running the land to put it back to where it was and how would you address the fact that population isn't the same as it was back then, starting with us damn immigrants who came and certainly contributed in all positive and negative ways to change the land? I

I've been rather hard on you lately, Skiing Slavic Immigrant. Thanks for posting your question the way you did.

Please keep in mind that the Founding Fathers were folks who benefitted from thousands of years of history, and came to their conclusions based on that history. They were well-read in classical literature, and therefore understood the nature of man, and the limits of politics.

Uther makes a good point, although he struggles to make a good, tight, concise argument. I think I get his point though - what is the ideal point in the past that we ought to go back to? How about to 1830 when Africans were enslaved? Was that an ideal era? I think that is what he had in mind, and yes, given human frailty, one would fail to find a perfect point in time save perhaps one: A. D. 33 or thereabouts.

I am very skeptical of those who push for Utopia here on Earth. Utopia means no place, and that is why those who seek heaven on Earth tend to bring only such things as the concentration camp, the gulag archipelago, and the Chinese laogai.

I can offer some suggestions as to what we ought to seek as a nation. Those things are:

- A recognition of the sanctity of human life. If humans can decide what is human life, then human life will soon be degraded.

- A return to the belief that the Constitution actually means what it says. A recogntition of the Bill of Rights as being inviolate. A complete and total abandonment of the idea that the Constitution has "penumbras."

- An firm resolve to rid the US of Marxist ideas - a complete and total purging of Academe of Marxist professors and the ideas they are pushing that are contrary to our ideas as a people. The Marxist ideas are not consistent with our founding. They are foreign ideas that have failed whenever and whereever they have been tried. They are anti-human, and anti-Christian. They are based on the failed idea that we can achieve heaven on Earth. Marxism is the modern day equivalent of the Tower of Babel.

- A return to self-reliance. Too many modern Americans are pathetic drones dependent on the State. That is NOT what America is about, and will end badly.

- A return to the sanctify of the family as the building block of society - a unique and inviolate institution. Families come about through procreation. Procreation can only take place when a man and a women engage in sexual congress. Homosexual "marriage" is an infertile farce, and is not only contrary to the laws of God, but also contrary to the laws of Nature. That much is self-evident, regardless of one's religions inclinations, or lack thereof.

- A return to true free markets - as opposed to the corporatist, rigged game here in the US, that is nothing more than the nexus of big business and big government. How can mankind remain free in such an "economy?" MF Global is a fitting example.

- A return to freedom. We believe we live in a free country, but do we really? Those of us old enough to remember what a free American was like should be appalled by modern America. Whenever I hear the National Anthem, I want to vomit, because I know what Americe was and what America IS. It most certainly is NOT a free country anymore, and the remaining freedoms we have are slipping away at an exponential rate.

- A return to the belief that the State exists to serve the people - not the other way round.

Those are some initial ideas that spring to mind. There are likely more buried in the deep recessess of my aged mind, but the above is a start. I have a grand-daughter whining for attention, so I must say good-night for now.

If any immigrant comes to these shores, and recognizes and appreciates our ideals, he will be welcomed as one of our brethren. If, however, any immigrant comes to our shores and denigrates our ideas, and works to overthrow what is the last great hope of humanity, then he should be recognized for the threat that he is and should be attacked, ridiculed, and ridden out of the country on a rail - even if he is the current occupant of the White House, a bastard brat born to a Kenyan Communist.

Oh, and Sandy Brake - we all belong to one race and it is called mankind or man. Gender is not an issue here. Please put down your current copy of Cosmopolitan and start to read something meaningful. It is not 1978 anymore. Time has moved on and your mindless crap is just pathetic now. No one cares now about such gender oriented mind-candy. Pick up a piece of classical literature and learn something meaningful. Human beings are ALL fallen creatures, whether they have testicles or a vagina. Please spare us the 1970s "I am woman hear me roar" crap. It is even more pathetic than an episode of Oprah.

[sandy brake]

CCR, How about you get your head out of Hogcallers muck? Gender IS the issue here...This thread is about women, remember?? Komen vs PPH?

As for my choice of reading material, I hardly think that is what is at issue here.

Your consistent rants where you pretend to be an authority about everybody, and everything, to me, is lengthy and boring.

[Common Sense Al]

This thread is about women, remember?? Komen vs PPH?

It's just as much about men as it is for women, but primarily it's about right vs. wrong... but I am not surprised you can't see that. I think CCR is actually right in this case: it's best to put down that Cosmopolitan magazine and read something of value.

And if anyone is actually against women, it's people like yourself who trash life and disrespect women in the name of false freedom.

[sandy brake]

I stand up for the right of women to speak out against men, women or any governmental agency who feels they have a right to control my body, by removing my right to birth control, Plan B, or having an abortion.

Forced birth, planned marriages and general governmental interference in personal decisions unfortunately are still common in communist and facist governments around the world today. I do not want to see it in my country.

[Uther]

I doubt women as a whole would like to be represented by you as their spokeswoman. The women I know won't. I think you should stick to saying that you only speak for yourself. And that you stand up for your right to embarrass yourself. Which you do frequently and well.

[Hog Caller]

These postings of late have been enlightening and fun to read. Keep up the gold work!