Gas Prices - here we go again?

[L-Dog]

...and they were driving RV-camp to RV-camp.

Hopefully they signed up to be members of the Good Sam Club...

[Common Sense Al]

Never mind about the electric car... this is the future and the answer to the obesity epidemic. It's also cheaper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7aapY_yMnQ

[Uther]

There has to be easier ways to commit suicide in traffic.

[Common Sense Al]

This is a nice video on the Nissan Leaf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFu0-zZ6HQk

[Fred]

So, do EVs support multiple charging options? Can they accept either 110, 220 or 440, or are they restricted to one or another?

It seems to me that if EVs are going to survive, they will need to fit consumer needs (from a charging point of view). And those needs may be something like... charging at 110 over night at home, charging quicker during work on a 220v port, and an even quicker charge on 440v ports at stores and restaurants. This, assuming the infrastructure were in place, would make EVs more usable in real life.

But I'm still not 100% sure the whole EV thing is the real answer. Should EV evolve to mainstream use, how much did we accomplish? Unless we go full bore with nuclear power plants, we're just shifting fossil fuel needs from one area to another (from car to power plant). Is there a formula to compare how much fossil fuel is needed to charge an EV for a 100 miles of use vs. a how much fossil fuel is needed to drive a traditional car the same distance? The other thing is that it will take a long time to move mainstream to EVs. A quick search shows that (in the U.S.) 38% of cars are over ten years old. 22% are between seven and ten years old, and 25% are between three and six years. That means 60% of U.S. cars are over seven years old.

I think the answer needs to fit what we have now. How do we retrofit what we're driving? How do we use the infrastructure already in place? Ethanol is a possibility, but has a cost drawback, at least in the U.S. where it's made using corn (rather expensive). Why corn? Because the government stepped in and mandated its use as a subsidy for farmers because corn pricing was at an all time low at the time. But now that it's up (hmmm... never crossed the governments mind that corn prices might go up), it's too precious to be used for fuel. But Ethanol can be made from just about anything organic. Brazil makes it using sugar, for example. However, Ethanol has another downside in that it blends with water. That means it can't be easily shipped via existing pipelines. Another 'nol on the horizon is Butanol. It doesn't blend with water, so it's better suited for current infrastructure. But it's pretty new, and production processes are still being tweaked. My point about bringing up whatever-nols is they provide an answer that better fits what we have now. It would be far less difficult to tune what we have to use a good whatever-nol solution, and to use existing infrastructure to transport it.

Maybe we go the route of top fuel dragsters (the most powerful "cars" on the planet - averaging 7,000 horsepower), and use a methanol/alcohol mix?

Too much pondering for today...

[Common Sense Al]

So, do EVs support multiple charging options? Can they accept either 110, 220 or 440, or are they restricted to one or another?

I'm pretty sure they do... as was mentioned before, it's less than 30 minutes to 80% "quick charge" a Leaf. Not bad at all.

It seems to me that if EVs are going to survive, they will need to fit consumer needs (from a charging point of view). And those needs may be something like... charging at 110 over night at home, charging quicker during work on a 220v port, and an even quicker charge on 440v ports at stores and restaurants. This, assuming the infrastructure were in place, would make EVs more usable in real life.

Yes, we will need some more infrastructure, but a lot of it is already there since we use electricity so much already. Nothing like what would be required for hydrogen fuel... the electricity distribution system is already in placed, just might have to be beefed up or tweaked in some places.

But I'm still not 100% sure the whole EV thing is the real answer. Should EV evolve to mainstream use, how much did we accomplish? Unless we go full bore with nuclear power plants, we're just shifting fossil fuel needs from one area to another (from car to power plant).

Certainly not. Electricity can be made from many sources, not just fossil fuels. That's the great thing about it... think wind, solar, geothermal, hydropower, nuclear (as you mention), etc.

The other thing is that it will take a long time to move mainstream to EVs. A quick search shows that (in the U.S.) 38% of cars are over ten years old. 22% are between seven and ten years old, and 25% are between three and six years. That means 60% of U.S. cars are over seven years old.

Sure, it will take a long time... but thinking short-term is one of the reasons we're in such a mess now. It's going to take the long-term to implement real, lasting solutions.

I think the answer needs to fit what we have now. How do we retrofit what we're driving? How do we use the infrastructure already in place? Ethanol is a possibility, but has a cost drawback, at least in the U.S. where it's made using corn (rather expensive). Why corn? Because the government stepped in and mandated its use as a subsidy for farmers because corn pricing was at an all time low at the time. But now that it's up (hmmm... never crossed the governments mind that corn prices might go up), it's too precious to be used for fuel. But Ethanol can be made from just about anything organic. Brazil makes it using sugar, for example. However, Ethanol has another downside in that it blends with water. That means it can't be easily shipped via existing pipelines. Another 'nol on the horizon is Butanol. It doesn't blend with water, so it's better suited for current infrastructure. But it's pretty new, and production processes are still being tweaked. My point about bringing up whatever-nols is they provide an answer that better fits what we have now. It would be far less difficult to tune what we have to use a good whatever-nol solution, and to use existing infrastructure to transport it.

I think electricity is the winner for the near and short-term future. I think that all those other "*nol fuels" have significant issues, more so than electricity.

[admin]

North Texas residents are taking to electric cars

[JKTex]

$3.89 for diesel. Geez........

[Bacchus2b]

$3.89 for diesel. Geez........

Just wait and see the impact on your food prices along with everything else. People don't seem to understand how much of the products they consume are carried to stores on trucks. Diesel was $2.90 per gallon in December and I can assure you that manufacturers are not going to absorb the extra fuel costs. Here we go again!

[neighbor]

North Texas residents are taking to electric cars

So he says he'll save $170 a month in gas with the Volt. Hmmm... and it'll only cost him ~$42k if he's buying it.... or lease it for ~$350 a month.

Gee, what a savings.

[Common Sense Al]

Never really thought about this, but it makes perfect sense... use your electric car as a backup power source for your home if the power goes out.

Nissan says electric car can power family home

The Leaf batteries have a capacity of 24 kilowatt hours when fully charged, equivalent to the electricity used by the average Japanese household in two days, said the company.

The output from the vehicle comes to six kilowatts, enough to power electricity-guzzling appliances such as a refrigerator, air conditioner and washing machine at the same time, the company said.

[CopperCanyonResident]

Coal - America's Ace in the hole.

[Common Sense Al]

Here we go again with gas prices! I heard gas prices are at record highs for this time of the year - and headed for over $4/gallon soon.

That new Prius plug-in seems pretty tempting.... I hear it costs significantly more than the regular Prius though.

On another note... it seems every time there are signs of economic recovery, gas prices shoot up and knock us down again.

[JKTex]

$75 and about 1/8 tank got me almost a 1/2 tank full. But that's diesel only .10 higher than it has been and I'm tired of the dance routine to fill it, but it last me a month. I may have another good reason to sell the boat and truck, and buy a smaller truck. Smaller truck.....I crack myself up!!

[sandy brake]

A typical-sized 500 megawatt coal-fired electricity plant in the United States (ucsusa.org)
puts out each year:
1. 3.7 million tons of carbon dioxide.
2. 10,000 tons of sulfur dioxide.
3. 10,200 tons of nitrogen oxide.
4. 500 tons of small particles.
5. 220 tons of hydrocarbons.
6. 720 tons of carbon monoxide.
7. 125,000 tons of ash
8. 225 pounds of arsenic, 114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, and many other toxic heavy metals. Mercury emissions from coal plants are suspected of contaminating lakes and rivers in northern and northeast states. In Wisconsin alone, more than 200 lakes and rivers are contaminated with mercury.

The “ace in the hole” you are referring to. Is it perhaps six feet under?