McCain lets his pit-bull loose

[nyuce]

Skiing, you've got something there! What if we vote on the strength and capabilities of the candidate without any regard to his or her religion? After all, this country has all the religions you can think of. Wouldn't it be great?

Wait, wait... we already have a secular system and religion should not interfere in the running of government.

[Common Sense Al]

A country with no morality is one that falls apart. Look how greediness for the almighty dollar, lying, and fraud (like mortgage fraud) have jeopardized our economy and has spread to the world economy. Society cannot prosper without morality.

[josh]

Skiing, you've got something there! What if we vote on the strength and capabilities of the candidate without any regard to his or her religion? After all, this country has all the religions you can think of. Wouldn't it be great?

Wait, wait... we already have a secular system and religion should not interfere in the running of government.

Naive at best. What if a candidates religion promoted murder? WHat if it promoted child abuse? Would you be able to say "well...thats HIS religion and he is free to practice that as we pleases. I'm sure he can separate his religion from his work as President". Nonesense of course. But religion is not just a set of beliefs about god or heaven or nirvana...it is a world view. To expect a president to ignore his worldview is naive. That is why it is important to understand a person's religion. Not because you are worried that person may pray to Mecca 7 times a day or read the Koran or not eat Pork, etc. But because you know that millions of people of the same faith believe that stoning adulterers is ok and killing non-beleivers ok. Could a Muslim become president? Sure. SHould that person expect to have to prove to American voters that he does not suscribe to the type of Islam that millions around the world suscribe to - you betcha. A candidate's worldview is extremely important. And worldview's are almost always guided by religion.

[nyuce]

Al, I have a news for you. The morality is not cornered by the religious only. Throughout the history you will find most horrendous crimes committed by some of the most well known religious figures. The wars fought in the name of God, Allah are only examples. We also are aware of donations to churches made by known criminals. I am not saying all religious people are criminals. What I am saying is there are people with good character and bad character in any religion, believer and non-believer. That is why we cannot judge people by their religious affiliation.

When I was a little girl, I asked my father which religion we belong to. His answer was: I don't care which religion you chose or chose not to side with any religion as long as you are honest, don't steal, don't lie, don't hurt others, don't cheat, work hard for every morsel that passes through your mouth, treat everyone as you would like to be treated.

Now, do you think a person thinks on these lines can do any harm to anybody regardless of which religion he or she belongs to?

I believe, my father was light years ahead of some of the posters.

[Common Sense Al]

Naive at best. What if a candidates religion promoted murder? WHat if it promoted child abuse? Would you be able to say "well...thats HIS religion and he is free to practice that as we pleases. I'm sure he can separate his religion from his work as President". Nonesense of course.

Good point!

[Common Sense Al]

Al, I have a news for you. The morality is not cornered by the religious only.

Thanks for the news. The fact is that religious people are more likely to have a better moral foundation... assuming they were exposed to true morality and not someone's corrupted version of it.

Can secular, non-religious people be moral? Sure... but, in general, I would say they are less likely to have a good moral base than someone properly raised Christian or Catholic. Example: abortion... many secularists might think they are moral but still think abortion is OK. If one is Christian, then it is more likely that they will know that killing unborn children is immoral.

[nyuce]

Skiing, you've got something there! What if we vote on the strength and capabilities of the candidate without any regard to his or her religion? After all, this country has all the religions you can think of. Wouldn't it be great?

Wait, wait... we already have a secular system and religion should not interfere in the running of government.

Naive at best. What if a candidates religion promoted murder? WHat if it promoted child abuse? Would you be able to say "well...thats HIS religion and he is free to practice that as we pleases. I'm sure he can separate his religion from his work as President". Nonesense of course. But religion is not just a set of beliefs about god or heaven or nirvana...it is a world view. To expect a president to ignore his worldview is naive. That is why it is important to understand a person's religion. Not because you are worried that person may pray to Mecca 7 times a day or read the Koran or not eat Pork, etc. But because you know that millions of people of the same faith believe that stoning adulterers is ok and killing non-beleivers ok. Could a Muslim become president? Sure. SHould that person expect to have to prove to American voters that he does not suscribe to the type of Islam that millions around the world suscribe to - you betcha. A candidate's worldview is extremely important. And worldview's are almost always guided by religion.

Then that worldview is very limited. If you are too worried about Islamic rules, why on earth you are not questioning the undertakings of Bush administration. Why on earth nobody is talking about the buddy relationship with the most strict Islamic sect, the Wahabbis, namely Saudis? Oh Petrol? So do you leave your 'values' in closet when it comes to petrol money? How about the Administrations concerted efforts to support of the radicals converting a perfectly liberal country which has no religion affiliation stated in its constitution, Turkey, into a religious Islamic country?

BTW did you elect Bush on his worldview? And look where it got us.

[esemerson]

so if that is the case josh can we expect Palin to for a nationwide witch hunt once she is in office?

[nyuce]

pray to Mecca 7 times a day .

That is the problem of bigots - exaggeration!

josh, it is 5 times a day.

[josh]

pray to Mecca 7 times a day .

That is the problem of bigots - exaggeration!

josh, it is 5 times a day.

You have quite quite the nerve there nyuce. Support you claim that I am a bigot or issue an apology now! Newsflash lady. Not everyone who disagrees with your opinion is a bigot. What a joke. The party that supposedly welcomes all types in reality only welcomes those that agree with their opinions. You can never again claim to be open minded. Next you will tell me I am homophobic because I oppose same sex marriage...that I am a member of the KLAN because I oppose race based admissions to school.

Post your evidence that shows the Bush administration pushing for an Islamic state in Turkey. And state for the good people of this mb what your connection is with Turkey. That may shed some light on YOUR worldview!

[nyuce]

The fact is that religious people are more likely to have a better moral foundation... assuming they were exposed to true morality and not someone's corrupted version of it.

Can secular, non-religious people be moral? Sure... but, in general, I would say they are less likely to have a good moral base than someone properly raised Christian or Catholic. Example: abortion... many secularists might think they are moral but still think abortion is OK. If one is Christian, then it is more likely that they will know that killing unborn children is immoral.

You assume wrong. In my family and we are a very large family, there are no abortions, no thefts, no criminals, no disrespect for the elders, no dependency on the system, no hypocracy.

Look at the newspapers front pages or courts and see how many priests are charged with horrendous crimes against children. If you are against abortion, then you cannot be hypocrite and work against sexual education at schools. Only through education you can achieve the reduction of unwanted pregrancies. Religious right is engaging in the end result instead of removing the ignorance of the cause.

[corytm30]

Al, I have a news for you. The morality is not cornered by the religious only.

Thanks for the news. The fact is that religious people are more likely to have a better moral foundation... assuming they were exposed to true morality and not someone's corrupted version of it.

Can secular, non-religious people be moral? Sure... but, in general, I would say they are less likely to have a good moral base than someone properly raised Christian or Catholic.

The "fact"? Where was this published, because I think I missed it?

I don't consider myself religious Al, and I want to make sure I understand what you are saying...Because you were "properly raised Christian or Catholic", your "moral foundation" is better than mine because I wasn't "properly raised Christian or Catholic"?

[Common Sense Al]

The "fact"? Where was this published, because I think I missed it?

I don't know if it is published or not, but facts don't have to be published to be facts. While I don't have any "scientific proof" about it, I strongly believe that it is true.

I don't consider myself religious Al, and I want to make sure I understand what you are saying...Because you were "properly raised Christian or Catholic", your "moral foundation" is better than mine because I wasn't "properly raised Christian or Catholic"?

No, you misinterpreted. I am saying that it is MORE LIKELY that a moral foundation that is properly based on correct Christian values is better (holds more truth) than one that isn't based on correct Christian values.

Hope I was clear. I bolded and capitalized the important, missed part.

[nyuce]

pray to Mecca 7 times a day .

That is the problem of bigots - exaggeration!

josh, it is 5 times a day.

You have quite quite the nerve there nyuce. Support you claim that I am a bigot or issue an apology now! Newsflash lady. Not everyone who disagrees with your opinion is a bigot. What a joke. The party that supposedly welcomes all types in reality only welcomes those that agree with their opinions. You can never again claim to be open minded. Next you will tell me I am homophobic because I oppose same sex marriage...that I am a member of the KLAN because I oppose race based admissions to school.

Post your evidence that shows the Bush administration pushing for an Islamic state in Turkey. And state for the good people of this mb what your connection is with Turkey. That may shed some light on YOUR worldview!

You only need to read what you have written in regards to a moslem candidate. I am against all religious interference in any election. I oppose the same sex marriage, I oppose the race based admissions to school, too. But that has nothing to do with religion.

Regarding Bush administration's help of pro-Islamic government of Turkey, you only need to read the statements of US newspapers, position papers, etc. BTW did you know that one of the most religious Turkish imams was and is living for years in Pennsylvania and protected by our security forces, while the previous Turkish government asked for his return, to appear at court?

My worldview? Similar to my father's. As long as you don't lie, you don't kill, you don't cheat, you work hard, help others and don't live off the system, you are a good person and I don't care what religion you belong to.

[josh]

The "fact"? Where was this published, because I think I missed it?

I don't know if it is published or not, but facts don't have to be published to be facts. While I don't have any "scientific proof" about it, I strongly believe that it is true.

I don't consider myself religious Al, and I want to make sure I understand what you are saying...Because you were "properly raised Christian or Catholic", your "moral foundation" is better than mine because I wasn't "properly raised Christian or Catholic"?

No, you misinterpreted. I am saying that it is MORE LIKELY that a moral foundation that is properly based on correct Christian values is better (holds more truth) than one that isn't based on correct Christian values.

Hope I was clear. I bolded and capitalized the important, missed part.

I have to disagree somewhat with you Al. You do not have to be Christian to have what most people consider good moral values. I dont think you can sufficiently ground morality without belief in God...but you do not have to be Christian to be "good".