Local Dems turn out at joint precinct meeting

[L-Dog]

-Obama will raise taxes! - for 5% of the population yes indeed.

And you think it's justified to be penalized with higher taxes because you've worked you tail off to make more money? Essentially, it's punishing people for being successful (and let's not forget small business owners whose businesses fall into the higher bracket, which can affect their employees' jobs).

It breaks down to a fundamental difference:

Leaning right - People should take care of themselves and not rely on other people's money to survive.

Leaning left - The city/county/state/fed should be responsible for taking care of the people (through tax dollars).


I think it's awful to punish successful people in that way. It smacks of jealousy.

[Common Sense Al]

And you think it's justified to be penalized with higher taxes because you've worked you tail off to make more money? Essentially, it's punishing people for being successful (and let's not forget small business owners whose businesses fall into the higher bracket, which can affect their employees' jobs).

It breaks down to a fundamental difference:

Leaning right - People should take care of themselves and not rely on other people's money to survive.

Leaning left - The city/county/state/fed should be responsible for taking care of the people (through tax dollars).


I think it's awful to punish successful people in that way. It smacks of jealousy.

But Joe Biden says it is patriotic to pay more taxes if you are "rich"!

Guess what... the "rich" already pay more... a lot more. Not just because they make more money, but also because they pay a higher %.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqgNWRjmAc

[esemerson]

josh,
So how does McCain's plan to lower the Estate tax benefit anyone but the elite few? I don't know about you but I have not inherited any estates in a while. By the way please don't bring up home values. I couldn't sell my home with all of the foreclosures around.

McCain's tax cuts to the rich will benefit no one but the rich. I think we can all agree that trickle-down economics is a outdated concept.

Ldog---

Lets remember what America is about. the needs of the many. If someone is struggling then they need to be helped. After all society is judged on the status of all of the citizens not just the ones sitting pretty.

I guarantee the vast majority of Americans that need help would rather rely on themselves given the choice.

[josh]

[quote="josh"


You made a statement earlier: "....In a secular society there are many "truths", yours, mine, and others."

I just want to know...is that statement true?

Yes, absolutely.[/quote]

Thank you for answering. But that begs the question. Is that statement - …there are many truths… - "true for you" or is it also "true for me"? If it is true for everyone, haven’t you just contradicted yourself? Because I thought you said there are "many truths". And if something is “true for everyone”…well, there can’t be “many truths”.

If it is not true for everyone, then when you say something like “…there are many truths”…all you have really said is the equivalent of “I like the color orange.”


Your statement "there are many truths" succumbs to what is called in philosophy as "committing suicide". Your argument can’t bare the weight of itself. It can’t live up to its own burden.

There is, in fact, a singular truth to certain things. I may not know the answer and you may not know the answer. That does nothing to impact truth. At one point, man thought the world was flat. Then, there was a point where most believed the world was round, but some still thought it was flat. At neither point in history was the truth that the world was round impacted by people’s lack of understanding of differing opinions.

[esemerson]

But Joe Biden says it is patriotic to pay more taxes if you are "rich"!

Guess what... the "rich" already pay more... a lot more. Not just because they make more money, but also because they pay a higher %.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqgNWRjmAc

patriotism
noun
love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

and here i thought you were a single issue guy.

[Common Sense Al]

patriotism
noun
love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

Thanks for the definition.

and here i thought you were a single issue guy.

More like an important issue voter... but I do have my opinions on other issues.

[esemerson]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/candidates08/compare/

I can see why some of you are so upset?! wait not really.

[Toad]

Like the poor struggling people who need subsidized housing so they can have 20" chrome spinners.

What does struggling mean?

[josh]

But Joe Biden says it is patriotic to pay more taxes if you are "rich"!

Guess what... the "rich" already pay more... a lot more. Not just because they make more money, but also because they pay a higher %.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqgNWRjmAc

patriotism
noun
love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

and here i thought you were a single issue guy.

Exactly! "Willingness" to sacrifice.

Willingness: Adjective. "Cheerfully consenting".

If someone showed up at your house with a gun and demanded you pay for their dinners next month and their mortgage payment, would you give them money - maybe? Would you "willingly" give them money - doubtful.

[esemerson]

Like the poor struggling people who need subsidized housing so they can have 20" chrome spinners.

What does struggling mean?

stereotype much?

autoworkers that are losing their job and struggling... do you think they have spinners?

[esemerson]

Exactly! "Willingness" to sacrifice.

Willingness: Adjective. "Cheerfully consenting".

If someone showed up at your house with a gun and demanded you pay for their dinners next month and their mortgage payment, would you give them money - maybe? Would you "willingly" give them money - doubtful.

talk about straw man arguments?! taxes are part of being American. they have been since the country was founded. And guess what people have been complaining about them ever since.

josh you are convincing me that you just argue for the sake of argument.

[Common Sense Al]

talk about straw man arguments?! taxes are part of being American. they have been since the country was founded. And guess what people have been complaining about them ever since.

Let's just say that I don't consider myself patriotic because I pay the taxes I am forced to pay. Do you consider yourself patriotic because you pay the taxes you are forced to pay? Or is it for other, better reasons? For reasons that you can freely choose?

[nyuce]

You made a statement earlier: "....In a secular society there are many "truths", yours, mine, and others."

I just want to know...is that statement true?

Yes, absolutely.[/quote]

Thank you for answering. But that begs the question. Is that statement - …there are many truths… - "true for you" or is it also "true for me"? If it is true for everyone, haven’t you just contradicted yourself? Because I thought you said there are "many truths". And if something is “true for everyone”…well, there can’t be “many truths”.[/unquote/]

Josh,

Obviously you haven't noticed that I placed "truth" in brackets meaning I don't subscribe to that kind of terminology. What I am trying very hard to make you understand that this is not a unilaterally Christian society, there are Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, Shamans, Ateists, Agnostics and they work just as hard as you do, they pay taxes just as much as you do, and they die for this country just like any other. Pushing your "truths" or beliefs (the term I prefer) down the throats of others who have beliefs other than yours, is no different than to those we declare war. Look around you and you will find a Moslem doctor treating your child, a Hindu teacher at school, a Jewish businessman owns the company you work...etc.. Do you think those people have any lesser rights in this country just because they do not believe in your "truth" and prefer to stay with their own "truths"? During Rita and now Ike, I have opened up my house to people whose beliefs are totally against my beliefs - Do you think it mattered to me or them?

For L-Dog:

My husband and I worked very hard for what we have and have not received a penny from the system. Yet, I believe my taxes should go to help poor, underprivileged families of this country, without any regard to what they believe is the "truth". Helping at Church, Mosque, Synagogue, Temple, etc is good but you are helping only those around you and the need is for organized dependable continuous help, that is why taxes are important. For the same token, I would like to have safer streets, so I wouldn't mind my taxes going to police forces. I also help my family who have some members in need and take care of my mother (she is in another country) totally out of my pocket without even considering the fact that I am paying taxes to help some of your parents health and welfare. Am I liberal or conservative by your standards. I prefer to believe I am neither.

[Toad]

I work two jobs, six days a week. I have worked with many people over the years that have had to work multiple jobs when things got tough. I don't believe in subsidizing someone who doesn't WANT to put forth the same effort.

I understand people need help which I donate regularly to people I know NEED help. I don't need the governement taking the extra money I have worked hard for to "level the playing field".

This is still the one of the only countries I know of where people can work hard, make sacrifices and change the life they are living.

[josh]

Exactly! "Willingness" to sacrifice.

Willingness: Adjective. "Cheerfully consenting".

If someone showed up at your house with a gun and demanded you pay for their dinners next month and their mortgage payment, would you give them money - maybe? Would you "willingly" give them money - doubtful.

talk about straw man arguments?! taxes are part of being American. they have been since the country was founded. And guess what people have been complaining about them ever since.

josh you are convincing me that you just argue for the sake of argument.

You are right. Taxes are part of being an American. Are you telling me there is no tax rate that would cause you to say enough is enough? What if the income tax rate for your bracket - whatever that is - was raised to 70%? Silly I know. But the point is NOT that we should pay zero taxes. The point is not that we should not pay significant taxes for certain things. The point is mostly that we pay too much in taxes. And when taxes go up to pay for social items that benefit a certain few then I will complain. I will complain if my taxes go up to pay for the bailout of a certain few fat cats. I will complain if they go up to pay for the welfare of able bodied citizens. What tax rate is too high for you. Clearly, you are not there yet.