Iraq war

[Common Sense Al]

You keep saying that they have not made enough progress? And I keep saying to you...based on what? What is your idea of "enough progress" and what are you measuring that against?

Well I do not want to get into a never-ending debate again. But my idea of enough progress is that in 5 years time, there should be only a limited troop presence by now. Instead, we have more (or close to it) troops there than at any time previously. That's progress in reverse.

I agree we have a spending problem in the US and infrastructure issues...completely agree. But why do you automatically assume that defense spending which is WELL BELOW the 50 year average, at something like 4% of GDP is the cause?

Too much defense spending is one of the reasons (a BIG one), not the only one. There's plenty of other waste. And if I recall correctly, Iraq war funding may not be part of the "defense budget", instead the spending is classified as something else. I think the accounting is all messed up (maybe on purpose).

Could it be that spending on bridges to nowhere, spending on Planned Parenthood, spending on the arts, spending on billions and billions of pork may be the real reason?

It's that too.

Why is 1 year an "orderly fashion"? Where did that number come from? Why isnt 3 years or 10 years an orderly fashion? How long did we stay in Japan and Germany after WWII?

Because one year is long enough and 3 is too long. I used logic to come up with that . Don't know about those other wars but I doubt they are good comparisons anyway due to the unique circumstances of every war.

[Hog Caller]

i think we just have to finish the job and punish the people/person who got us in there wrongly.

If you were watching the news January 1, 2007 you would have been informed that his neck is now 2 inches longer.

[skiing1974]

what is the limitation on these forums on the number of posts per topic?;) this one has a chance of winning it all and reaching that unforeseen limit. whether agree with the war or not, some US presence in Iraq is guaranteed when our grandkids come on this board and post.

[matj6876]

what is the limitation on these forums on the number of posts per topic?;) this one has a chance of winning it all and reaching that unforeseen limit. whether agree with the war or not, some US presence in Iraq is guaranteed when our grandkids come on this board and post.

Can't comment on the limit but this ain't 1/3 of the size of the Universal Healthcare topic yet!

[josh]

I was happy to let Al have the last word back in March...then he had to go revise the thread all over again

[linux_is_cool]

You keep saying that they have not made enough progress? And I keep saying to you...based on what? What is your idea of "enough progress" and what are you measuring that against?

Well I do not want to get into a never-ending debate again. But my idea of enough progress is that in 5 years time, there should be only a limited troop presence by now. Instead, we have more (or close to it) troops there than at any time previously. That's progress in reverse.

There was only one way to have this happen in 5 years and that was to nuke the whole place and that wasn't going to happen. We took over a country, threw out the government and are now trying to put a sane government in place, all while trying to keep from getting killed. Sorry, but I don't see anyone doing this in 5 years time. I am not personally in the military, but I have a lot of family in the military. Everyone I have asked about this says we are doing the right thing and that we have to finish what WE started. Our government did this to us, and we must continue working to restore order in Iraq no matter how long it takes. Yes there are lives being lost, but they chose to support our country and support the battle engagement requests of our president, because of this, we are free. If we don't finish this job, then all hell will break loose. With this war, we have pissed off about 90% of the Muslim population, and they will come after us if we just walk away and leave Iraq in shambles. Forget the money and how much it costs, is the financial stability of this country really going to matter if some jihadist actually develops a weapon of mass destruction and launches it at us and succeeds? That is what we will face if we leave in a year. This is only my opinion and I know nothing

Why is 1 year an "orderly fashion"? Where did that number come from? Why isnt 3 years or 10 years an orderly fashion? How long did we stay in Japan and Germany after WWII?

I do believe that we are still in Japan and in Germany today. I personally think that had we up and left after World War II ended, it would have been a bad, bad decision, we probably wouldn't be where we are today in this country. The same goes for the Middle East, if we leave tomorrow or next year for that matter, god knows what will happen, what kind of government will be formed, and obviously a government that will hate the US. We need to keep troops there for as long as it takes to keep order.

We will never leave, just like we haven't left Japan and Germany, there will ALWAYS be a US military presence in Iraq.

[skiing1974]

not to mention Kosovo, where US recognized the state which is now 2nd Albanians have (in addition to neighboring Albania-first nation to have 2 states, Koreas don't count), for only one reason=to have the biggest military base in Europe, with such a great access to Adriatic, Middle East and let's not forget Eastern Europe, doorsteps of Russia. so let's not forget part of the US problem today in the world, doing this or that to other places outside of the UN chapter. Sorry, you can flex your muscles all you want stating UN is this way or that way to justify acts such as that one.

[Common Sense Al]

Exclusive: McClellan whacks Bush, White House

Among other notable passages:

...

“History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided: that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now when we can more fully understand its impact. What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary.”

[skiing1974]

shocking really;) on one thing I agree, presidents do not really get the information from the sources, they hear it 2nd hand from their advisors. blaming presidents (as much as I may not like the current or the previous one for the reasons of foreign policies) is OK as they chose their advisors, but not always making decisions on true facts.