Komen foundation & Planned Parenthood

[Uther]

I'm sure you know that Al, as a devout and practicing Catholic, does not condone, promote, or endorse the use of birth contraceptives, except for the "natural rhythm" method. Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized.

Do you really think that is what the Catholic church teaches?

Catholic.com:

In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.

Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods.

It ain't my words Al...

[Common Sense Al]

It ain't my words Al...

And it says nothing that supports most of what you said (other than artificial contraception is intrinsically evil).

For example, show me where "Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized" in official Catholic teaching.

[Uther]

It ain't my words Al...

And it says nothing to support most of what you said.

Show me where birth control is considered abortion... and where the church teaches the "rythm method".

You make me chuckle while I invoke the name of &Deity....

"Intrinsically wrong" is just what it says.... I do not know how you can change that into anything else.

[Common Sense Al]

You make me chuckle while I invoke the name of &Deity....

"Intrinsically wrong" is just what it says.... I do not know how you can change that into anything else.

Who's changing it?

Let me rephrase: For example, show me where "Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized" in official Catholic teaching.

[skiing1974]

And you answer, Al, how is birth control increasing the number of unwanted pregnancies over the world where there would be no birth control? Assuming people will have sex regardless.

[Common Sense Al]

And you answer, Al, how is birth control increasing the number of unwanted pregnancies over the world where there would be no birth control? Assuming people will have sex regardless.

You know, I've spent too much time on this already.

And I've already explained it a bit... but there is a lot more good info online that goes deeper...... try catholic.com for some good info if you are really interested (which I don't think you are and thus I'd probably just be wasting more of my time).

[Uther]

You make me chuckle while I invoke the name of &Deity....

"Intrinsically wrong" is just what it says.... I do not know how you can change that into anything else.

Who's changing it?

Let me rephrase: For example, show me where "Birth control, in the eyes of the Catholic church, is just as much murder as abortion, inasmuch as it precludes a viable sperm and viable egg from becoming fertilized" in official Catholic teaching.

Sometimes you are way too literal. Of course the initial observation is me paraphrasing the Catholic Church's position. Anything that stands in the way of God's edict to "go forth and multiply" (and I don't mean that mathematically) is wrong. And doing wrong is sinning.

As for the rhythm method. Before I got married I went to a weekend orientation course (in a Catholic church premises, under leadership of Catholic clergy). Part of that course actually taught the rhythm method as the only acceptable way Catholics can practice birth control. It also spent some time extolling dangers inherent to life and future procreation in employing various alternate forms of birth control, including IUDs and the Pill.

So now you can tell me that it was once again people doing things differently than the Church doctrine, but the distinction is becoming ever finer and finer - to the point of vanishing.

[skiing1974]

Al, sorry, but you haven't explained it. Abstinence does not hold water for the majority of the population. So, if you call abstinence reality-your choice, but it sure isn't.

[Common Sense Al]

Sometimes you are way too literal. Of course the initial observation is me paraphrasing the Catholic Church's position.

Your paraphrase was completely/materially wrong. If you are going to paraphrase, at least you should try to get it mostly right.

Anything that stands in the way of God's edict to "go forth and multiply" (and I don't mean that mathematically) is wrong. And doing wrong is sinning.

Again, wrong... there are morally acceptable reasons to put off having children or having more children (and thus it would not be sinful).

As for the rhythm method. Before I got married I went to a weekend orientation course (in a Catholic church premises, under leadership of Catholic clergy). Part of that course actually taught the rhythm method as the only acceptable way Catholics can practice birth control. It also spent some time extolling dangers inherent to life and future procreation in employing various alternate forms of birth control, including IUDs and the Pill.

I don't know exactly what they taught back then, but now they teach the "Sympto-Thermal Method (STM) of NFP", which is over 99% effective in postponing pregnancy... and it is natural, not artificial, which is morally acceptable... and guess what, it's based on SCIENCE & the woman's body. And yes, there are definitely dangers and side-effects of artificial contraception.

So now you can tell me that it was once again people doing things differently than the Church doctrine, but the distinction is becoming ever finer and finer - to the point of vanishing.

I really don't know what you're talking about in the above statement.

[Common Sense Al]

Al, sorry, but you haven't explained it.

That's why I directed you to a good source if info, if you really wanted to know more.

[skiing1974]

I will not waste a single kB of data transfer on reading through thousands of pages of some Church explanation. Given you are such a devoted follower, if you can't explain it yourself, then I am not sure what to say.

[Common Sense Al]

I will not waste a single kB of data transfer on reading through thousands of pages of some Church explanation. Given you are such a devoted follower, if you can't explain it yourself, then I am not sure what to say.

I'm 99% certain that you're not looking to really understand. If you were, then you wouldn't come up with the ridiculous claim of having to read through thousands of pages of "some Church explanation". Also, if you'd even tried to go to the site I suggested, you'd have realized they have a handy search feature where you can type in phrases like "birth control".

Here's something interesting I quickly found:
The Birth Control Pill: Blessing or Curse?

And you can download the MP3 for free.

[CopperCanyonResident]

I don't think anyone answered my question posed a while back: are we a better people since the Sexual Revolution?

We all know the answer. No, we have been on a greased ramp since the 1960's and everyone knows it.

Before the so-called "Great Society" Progressive nonsenese put upon us by that sociopath LBJ, illigitimacy among black Americans was in the 20% range. White illigitimacy was in the low single digits.

Now black illigitimacy is in the 70% to 75% range each year, and white illigitimacy is in the low 20% range (if memory serves).

As usual, I am too lazy to dig around to confirm exact figures, but the above is accurate enough.

How is that working out for us?

The point I am making is that no one - regardless of one's views about abortion - can honestly say we are a better people now than we were in the past.

We are in a downward spiral and it is apparent for all to see.

A people who expect to be both immoral and dissolute and also to remain free, expect what has never been, and never shall be.

America can be overcome only by our immorality. We can be defeated only from within, not from without.

[Uther]

I don't think anyone answered my question posed a while back: are we a better people since the Sexual Revolution?

You arbitrarily pick something that bugs you. Ask the same about any "revolution". You also omit to state a benchmark for "better" - "better" relative to what?

Are we better people after Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Are we better people since Martin Luther nailed the 95 theses to the door of the Basilica?

Are we better people since the Renaissance when painters started painting human figures purely for the enjoyment of the human body? Botticelli comes to mind.

Are we better people since the industrial revolution? How about the factory worker and child exploitation abuses right after the Industrial revolution?

Are we better people since the transportation revolution?

Are we better people since we started chopping down Redwood, Brazilian, and Indonesian forests to use the trees as lumber and furniture?

Are we better people since the advent of Betamax and VCRs? Studies show that that was the time that porn started moving right into the bedrooms of middle America.

Are we better people for driving many fish species, including whales, to the brink of extinction?

Are we better people since the computer revolution?

Are we better people since the Internet when everyone can stream porn directly to wherever they are? Contrast that to the benefits accruing from using the internet for other means.

[Hog Caller]

I just saw an interesting quote on Twitter and I thought I would at it to this august forum: @randyalcorn: For every new adoptable child, thirty others are killed. For every couple that adopts, another forty wait in line.