Local Dems turn out at joint precinct meeting

[nyuce]

I knew this would come up sometime...."In a secular society there are many "truths", yours, mine, and others. "

Is that statement true?

Please respond and I will continue my post.

Yes, but in real sense not belief.

Are you ignoring the fact that there are millions of Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, Shaman, ateists, agnostics living, working, paying taxes and loving this country as much as you do?

[josh]

ok Josh. Hey can you provide some evidence that OJ was guilty?


There is no doubt in my mind that the American people were misled. It seems you were not only misled but bought into the propaganda as well.

We all have opinions about a lot of things. Most opinions are based on good evidence. Good "reasons" to believe what we believe. That is fine and what makes this mb so popular. But, when you start pretending that your opinions are fact but not willing to support those fact statements with evidence then I will question it all day long.

It seems to be a FACT, based on good evidence, that the amount of WMD found in Iraq was nowhere near as much as what was thought at first.

An opinion is that because of the FACT listed above is true, then Bush LIED.

It is another opinion that because of the FACT listed above is true, then the intelligence was bad. Or that the intelligence was good, but the WMD was moved. Or that the intelligence was bad and the WMD has not been located. Or etc, etc. There are lots of good opinions or theories that can be formed. A good debate would be for those who believed Bush LIED to provide their evidence and those who believe something else provide there evidence.

Otherwise, Bush LIED, is just a silly slanderous statement with no meaning...in my opinion.

[nyuce]

esemerson, forget about evidences
republicans run foreign policy based on now famous Bush doctrine

Which one:

"Saddam wanted to kill my Daddy!"????

[skiing1974]

that one Nyuce!!!!!

[skiing1974]

josh and Al, your favorite quotes "provide me the evidence".
geesh, provide me the evidence God exists oh no, you will say that's the "absolute truth". or can it be a belief simply?

[esemerson]

i find Bob Woodward more credible than Bush 2.

[skiing1974]

i find national hurricane center guessers on number of storms per year more credible than Bush 2.

[josh]

josh and Al, your favorite quotes "provide me the evidence".
geesh, provide me the evidence God exists oh no, you will say that's the "absolute truth". or can it be a belief simply?

Notice a trend here. The...shall we call them, Liberal leaning, members of this board throw out question after question without responding to my challenges. Now...instead of debating the original topic, I need to prove God's existence first. Does this strike anyone here is a little crazy?! Maybe it is just me.

I don't say "provide me the evidence" when it is clear someone is offering their opinion. I ask for evidence when someone tells me Phil Graham caused the current credit crisis. Or tells me Bush Lied. Those are statements that seem to sound more like attempts at fact. Those demand evidence to be taken seriously.

As for god.

1. All things that were created had a creator.
2. The Universe was created
3. The Universe had a creator.

That is an argument for the existence of a god. You will need to prove to me that #1 and #2 are false. Otherwise #3 is true.

Al, move this to a new thread...we could spend a while on this.

[Common Sense Al]

Al, move this to a new thread...we could spend a while on this.

I don't think it is worth arguing about anymore. Based on the "logic" and responses we are getting, it seems that we are speaking another language.

Agree with you about what "lie" means. Lying is saying one thing while believing another. I don't believe Bush was saying there were WMD in Iraq when he actually believed there weren't.

As for God, there's lots of evidence for His existence, but ultimately faith in God is a gift that you have to accept.

[esemerson]

Notice a trend here. The...shall we call them, Liberal leaning, members of this board throw out question after question without responding to my challenges. Now...instead of debating the original topic, I need to prove God's existence first. Does this strike anyone here is a little crazy?! Maybe it is just me.

I don't say "provide me the evidence" when it is clear someone is offering their opinion. I ask for evidence when someone tells me Phil Graham caused the current credit crisis. Or tells me Bush Lied. Those are statements that seem to sound more like attempts at fact. Those demand evidence to be taken seriously.

no so fast. I have thrown many a gauntlet and backed it up. You refuse to listen or reply to what you can't refute, often blaming your day job. Things may be great for you and your 250k+ income. But look around. Throwing a few dollars here and there into a collection plate will not make a dent in the problem, even though it may assuage your guilt.

I will say this again. Phil Gramm is/was a contributor to our current 'mental recession'. See the ENRON Loophole and BANKING Deregulation.

Here are more facts. The republican administration you so staunchly defend has put us in a mess. The government has spent and grown more in the last 8 years (6 under republican congress) since the Great Society. The deficit has swollen to astronomical proportions.

Your current presidential ticket is running on the basis that they are not real republicans. Mavericks, transparency, shake up Washington, and now CHANGE?! How can this be when you have a presidential candidate that has voted with the current administration 90% of the time? You have a 72 year old candidate that picks a running mate that is not qualified to be president. You have a campaign that held their first press conference in 6 weeks yesterday. You have FOX news complaining about the lack of access to Palin. Thanks but no thanks to that candidacy to nowhere.

When things get tough republicans go to the arsenal and pull out fear mongering attacks.

-Obama will raise taxes! - for 5% of the population yes indeed.
-Abortion!! -Have you seen them stop in the last 8 years?
-Gun Control!!!! - Obama Biden have already stated they have no intentions on taking your precious guns.
-He wants to teach 5 year olds about sexual predators! - See sex offender in Latana thread
-Reverend Wright - Show me any black man 60+ in America that does not have the right to be a little bitter. 1st amendment.
-9/11!!! -Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan where we should be focusing.
- He's an elitist!! - Please! Just look at the Bush cabinet.

[Toad]

Lee Strobel....The Case for Christ. The Case for the Creator.

Try reading these for some analytical evidence. An old school investigative reporter from Chicago who set out to disprove Christ to his wife who became a born again Christian during their marraige.

If I am wrong, no problem I have still led a wonderful fulfilling life...if you are wrong?????????

You may want to look at the risk/reward factor here.

[nyuce]

Try reading these for some analytical evidence.

On beliefs? No comments.

[josh]

Try reading these for some analytical evidence.

On beliefs? No comments.

You made a statement earlier: "....In a secular society there are many "truths", yours, mine, and others."

I just want to know...is that statement true?

[josh]

Notice a trend here. The...shall we call them, Liberal leaning, members of this board throw out question after question without responding to my challenges. Now...instead of debating the original topic, I need to prove God's existence first. Does this strike anyone here is a little crazy?! Maybe it is just me.

I don't say "provide me the evidence" when it is clear someone is offering their opinion. I ask for evidence when someone tells me Phil Graham caused the current credit crisis. Or tells me Bush Lied. Those are statements that seem to sound more like attempts at fact. Those demand evidence to be taken seriously.

no so fast. I have thrown many a gauntlet and backed it up. You refuse to listen or reply to what you can't refute, often blaming your day job. Things may be great for you and your 250k+ income. But look around. Throwing a few dollars here and there into a collection plate will not make a dent in the problem, even though it may assuage your guilt.

I will say this again. Phil Gramm is/was a contributor to our current 'mental recession'. See the ENRON Loophole and BANKING Deregulation.

Here are more facts. The republican administration you so staunchly defend has put us in a mess. The government has spent and grown more in the last 8 years (6 under republican congress) since the Great Society. The deficit has swollen to astronomical proportions.

Your current presidential ticket is running on the basis that they are not real republicans. Mavericks, transparency, shake up Washington, and now CHANGE?! How can this be when you have a presidential candidate that has voted with the current administration 90% of the time? You have a 72 year old candidate that picks a running mate that is not qualified to be president. You have a campaign that held their first press conference in 6 weeks yesterday. You have FOX news complaining about the lack of access to Palin. Thanks but no thanks to that candidacy to nowhere.

When things get tough republicans go to the arsenal and pull out fear mongering attacks.

-Obama will raise taxes! - for 5% of the population yes indeed.
-Abortion!! -Have you seen them stop in the last 8 years?
-Gun Control!!!! - Obama Biden have already stated they have no intentions on taking your precious guns.
-He wants to teach 5 year olds about sexual predators! - See sex offender in Latana thread
-Reverend Wright - Show me any black man 60+ in America that does not have the right to be a little bitter. 1st amendment.
-9/11!!! -Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan where we should be focusing.
- He's an elitist!! - Please! Just look at the Bush cabinet.

The McCain ticket is running on the platform that they ARE REAL Republicans. Not the other way around. REAL Republicans are supposed to limit govt. That is what is unique about Republicans and what McCain is campaigning on. Every candidate who as ever run for office runs on Change. Why run if you think the current group of folks is doing a good job?

Yes. Thanks for admitting that Obama is a net taxer. Next up, you should admit that we pay more than just income tax. What are his plans on capital gains tax, death tax, corporate income tax, etc. Unless you grow your own food and blend your own gas, you will be impacted. Naive to think otherwise.

Gun control. Yes. Obama has stated that.

Sexual Predators? What is the argument here?

Bill Cosby. Justice Thomas. Ooops. That was two. But having a "right to be bitter" was never the argument. Quit constructing staw man arguments. The question was - does Obama hold the same anti-American views as his spiritual advisor? Maybe he does maybe he doesnt. I may not hold the same views as my pastor. But if my pastor was out there blaming America for creating AIDS and I was running for office...I would expect to be questioned about my views.

An elitist? You didn’t deny it. You just blamed someone else!

More troops in Afghanistan. Agreed. Does McCain want more?

I don’t have any guilt. And I am not going to quantify the amount of dollars I throw in the plate. You pointing that out shows a clear lack of understanding of my world view. I give freely. I give as I have abundance. Some years, or even months, that is none. Some that is a lot. Stop by the Union Gospel Mission in Dallas on Tuesday's and ask those folks if the people who have given a few dollars put a dent in their situation. Stopped by the Interfaith Transitional Housing on Saturday's and ask those folks if the people who give their time have put a dent in their troubles. Oh. You think the government helped them out? Is that it? Guess again. It is people who give of their time and resources, no matter how small, that make the real change in people's life.

I live in the lowest rent section of Lantana – you don’t. Yet I AM the one who is out of touch? 90% of the people living in Lantana make more per family than I do – their houses are worth more than mine. I have a good idea that includes you. I won’t apologize for my good job, nor do I feel guilty. Yes. My day job prevents me from responding to everything. I don’t have the luxury of sitting in my mother’s basement all day with nothing to do. I don’t know how you make your money. But mine requires a bit of effort. If you make a claim that you think I am ignoring – call me on it.

[nyuce]

[quote="josh"


You made a statement earlier: "....In a secular society there are many "truths", yours, mine, and others."

I just want to know...is that statement true?[/quote]

Yes, absolutely.