Lantana07 wrote:By the quotes you've added to validate your points it's appears you don't understand the contextual meaning behind some of the verses.
Lantana07 wrote:It's rather surprising to me that you have chosen the quotes you have to suggest that works are needed for salvation. Google "fruits of the spirit" for an in-depth education on what that means. Google "heavenly rewards."
Lantana07 wrote:Al, show me where, anywhere, there is validity to the idea Mary was sinless. You can't. Show me where you need to go to a priest for forgiveness of sins. You can't.
Lantana07 wrote:That concept and the other's I mentioned are all over the catholic links you posted. I'm not the one saying these things, bro, your church is. Spend a little time reading what you link to.
Lantana07 wrote:Christ himself called people to salvation by his saving grace. But in order for us to be saved, (and unless you know something I know, Jesus isn't walking around today saving people on his own), we must accept him. Period. That's it. End game.
Lantana07 wrote:And I have no clue what you are alluding to with this quote other than it's the great commission. You know, make fishers of men. "1 Cor 9:16 "Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel".
Lantana07 wrote:Your Revelation quote is not refering to salvation, it's referring to God's holy judgement at the second coming. We will ALL be judged at that time for every act and every thought. The good works are a reflection of the blessing of the new covenant and a fruit of the spirit. But you are not damned to hell if you accept Christ because the minute you do, your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life. Then your heavenly rewards are based on what actions you took on earth.
Lantana07 wrote:In Matthew 25, who do you think are the "righteous"? Those who have accepted Christ. Yes, Al, fruits of the Spirit produce works but they are not, NOT salvation requirements. I don't think you get that concept, though. Also see Matthew Henry's commentary on this topic.
Lantana07 wrote:In Matthew 19:21, you left out the final line and the true meaning of the verse, "Then come follow me." Then come be a follower of Christ. C'mon, Al. What you are posting here is a bit too selective and leaves out the critical before and after piece of the scripture!!
Lantana07 wrote:Works are added to faith by the spirit and we will receive our various rewards in HEAVEN based on what we accomplish on earth, but the works can't get you there. Works are a reflection of faith, not a requirement for passage through the pearly gates.
Lantana07 wrote:I am NOT anti-works, but I'm trying to wrap that idea up. I feel pretty strongly that any Christian will be moved by the spirit to perform works of good for his fellow man out of genuine concern for him and a strong desire to honor God. It's how Jesus works through us to the world. We are witness not by what we say, but by what we do. But those works are only an off-shoot of our professed faith, not a duty of it. Doing a good work for man (i.e. ourselves as if some box we have to check) is pointless and self-centered and not honored by God. Doing a good work for God out of selfless love is a reward and is itself rewarded. Do you see the difference?
Lantana07 wrote:"Without doing works, you put your soul at risk."
Wrong. Flat out wrong. That equates to earning heaven and that's not possible. Becoming a Christian through acceptance is all that's required to gain entry to heaven. Yes, your work is not done at that point, but at that point you are promised entry.
James 2:14-16 "What good is it, my brothers if you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you. If a brother is naked and lacks daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat your fill', and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
Al wrote:Lantana07 wrote:We can get into Calvanism vs. Free Will if you really, really want to.
No, thanks... I need to get more work done.
David E. Miller wrote:Al, How do you get any work done? I also work out of the house but I barely have time to read all the threads much less respond without neglecting my business.
josh wrote:Ok...so Agnostic as in "you CANT know the truth" or Agnostic as is "you CAN know the truth, but you just are not convinced". It is actually an important distinction.
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