Catholic/Protestant teachings

[Lantana07]

Wow...that comment about scripture not being the only source of divine truth is a bit frightening. What, from God, is the other source? And why doesn't the rest of the non-catholic world have any idea what God's other books are? Not trying to be a smart-a**...

As for Mary, I just don't see how anyone can just decide, with no biblical foundation, that Mary was perfect. There were many people God labeled as being "with favor" and "blessed."

But how many times does the Bible state that Jesus was the only one without sin?

I guess you can make anything up if you want to. And try to interpret the literature to defend it. But it's just not solid theology or validated in the Bible. Catholic history and dogma reminds of the line from that movie Porky's, "So sayeth the shepperd. So sayeth the flock!"

[Common Sense Al]

Wow...that comment about scripture not being the only source of divine truth is a bit frightening. What, from God, is the other source? And why doesn't the rest of the non-catholic world have any idea what God's other books are? Not trying to be a smart-a**...

The other source would be from the authority of the church (not churches) that Jesus established.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/church/authority.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

[Lantana07]

Just don't see it the way that you do...or your denomination. The Bible itself contradicts some of what your church teaches, so I'll use the good book as the right answer.

The Bible is quite clear, in many instances, that:
1. There is only one way to salvation
2. There was only one who was sinless
3. You can't lose salvation unless you intentionally turn from it and denounce your faith in Christ. And even then, you have to ask if you ever had it in the first place.

Be good.

[josh]

Wow...that comment about scripture not being the only source of divine truth is a bit frightening. What, from God, is the other source? And why doesn't the rest of the non-catholic world have any idea what God's other books are? Not trying to be a smart-a**...

The other source would be from the authority of the church (not churches) that Jesus established.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/church/authority.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

And there you go Lantana07. I told you - didnt I? You cannot win an argument on theology with a Catholic because it ALWAYS comes back to the Catholic Church having the final say on everything. Yes...most people know this as circular reasoning.

[Lantana07]

I know, but it's kind of fun to see it get PhD'd.

[HEAD]

I know, but it's kind of fun to see it get PhD'd.

Keep Stirring!

[Common Sense Al]

You cannot win an argument on theology with a Catholic because it ALWAYS comes back to the Catholic Church having the final say on everything.

Great, now that we agree on the above we don't have to argue anymore.

[Lantana07]

"By grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9)...unless you're catholic.

http://www.ignitermedia.com/products/iv ... ts-My-King

...not the pope...Jesus...

[Lantana07]

Thinking on all of this, I think the primary differences we have, Al, is that you are using the words directly from your own denominational leadership to support the validity of your religion. That's like me saying I'm smart because, well, my dad said so.

In matters related to Christianity, there is no other source except the Bible. In fact, the final four verses of Revelation basically say that. You can surmise that the catholic church was what Jesus started. Okay, I can live with that, though I don't agree.

But to the extent that over the years the catholic leadership has decided that Mary was sinless (with no historical or Biblical validity); that you must take sacraments as part of salvation (again, with no historical or Biblical validity); that a priest is required for forgiveness of sins (again, with no historical or Biblical validity); and that there are other means to heaven outside of Christ (again, with no historical or Biblical validity) makes it less a religion based on the New Testament of Christ and more one based on what guys post-reformation wanted to have people do as a means of control.

The catholic church is based on fear of hell, not the joy of heaven. There is very little from my personal experience in the catholic church that relates to any sort of relationship with Jesus. It's all about listening to what the pope or a bishop has to say about a topic than on truly trying to understand what God was trying to say in the Bible. Or living your life on the principles of Jesus' teachings.

Read the red letters in the Bible. They never mention anything about good works as a way to heaven; repentance via a guy in a black robe; or baptism as a requirement for salvation. Never. Your religion has added these things later (a big no-no, if you read the Word). True repentance is turning from sin, not sitting in a pew for 10 mins and reciting five Our Fathers and four Hail Mary's and then you're good to go.

What is most disappointing about catholic teaching is that it claims to be the only way to heaven, when it is spelled out in black (and red) letters repeatedly by men more holy than your pope that trusting Christ is all it takes.

Adding the other elements simply diminishes Christ's life, value, death and resurrection. You've basically said, "Great, God's only son came down and died for all sins of all man as it was foretold in the Old Testament...but that's not enough. Nope. In fact, you also have to follow all these other rules that aren't in the book to get in."

I can live, as can most Christians, with different opinions of other denominations in Christianity. Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists...they all worship a little different, but they aren't fundamentally different in their interpretation of who Christ was and why he was even here: To save us from sin for an eternity in fellowship with God. You can't earn it, Al, as you'll find out one of these days. God gave the OT people thousands of years to figure out how to earn it and none was holy enough. Shoot, they even had a high priest who would try to attone for people's sins and that didn't work to God's satisfaction...that's why Christ was sent. Because we will always, always fall short of holy and no matter how good we are, it will not be enough. Even your pope(s) fall well short of holy - but they only need Christ, not all this other stuff that does nothing but create a culture of fear and control. We all remember our lessons on the Crusades and how that turned out for you.

[josh]

Can someone give Lantana07 an AMEN?!

[HEAD]

Can someone give Lantana07 an AMEN?!

That's the Pentacostals. Catholics don't do that. Shall we ask AL what Cathloics say about the tribulation and when the rapture occurs?

[Common Sense Al]

But to the extent that over the years the catholic leadership has decided that Mary was sinless (with no historical or Biblical validity); that you must take sacraments as part of salvation (again, with no historical or Biblical validity); that a priest is required for forgiveness of sins (again, with no historical or Biblical validity); and that there are other means to heaven outside of Christ (again, with no historical or Biblical validity) makes it less a religion based on the New Testament of Christ and more one based on what guys post-reformation wanted to have people do as a means of control.

You have a very misguided understanding of Catholicism. I don't know where you got all your information from, but it is clearly a corrupted source that you should be very wary of.

First, there is plenty of biblical basis for much of what the Catholic church teaches. From your post, it is clear that you do not understand many of the teachings.

If you really want to know the truth about the Catholic church and what it teaches, then I highly recommend a book by one of the authors I mentioned. Even better, read more than one book. They can explain it better than I can. Go ahead. Heck, I'll even be happy to buy you one and have it shipped to your house if you promise to read it (and try to read it without the negative attitude toward the church). Just PM me if you're interested.

[Common Sense Al]

"By grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9)...unless you're catholic.

By the way, that passage means that you cannot be saved by works alone without Christ (which is true). But it does NOT mean that faith alone is sufficient.

Try these passages:

Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. (Mat 7:20)

What good is it, my brothers if you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you. If a brother is naked and lacks daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat your fill', and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. (James 2:14-16)

Matt: 19:21 Then someone came to him and said "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life...[Jesus said] go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven...When the young man heard this word he went away grieving, for he had many possessions...

Mat 25:40-43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45 Then he will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done.

Lk 19:6 "So he (Zacchaeus) hurried down and was happy to welcome him (Jesus) ... 8 Zachaeus stood there and said to the Lord "Look, half of my possessions, Lord, I will give to the poor; and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will pay back four times as much." 9 Then Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house"

1 Cor 9:16 "Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel"

Jer. 17:10; 32:19 God will evaluate every man according to his deeds.

[skiing1974]

yawn...

[matj6876]

yawn...

Now then skiing.... I don't have a dog (or should that be god) in this race either... but you've gotta admire the dedication here. I'm stunned by the differences between folks who all look up to the same Big Man - keep educating me on why this matters guys!