California's top court overturns gay marriage ban

[Common Sense Al]

So when it comes to vaccination it's to hell with your obligation to society it's what's best for your kid. But when it comes to Mr & Mr Smith, who do not affect you directly, wanting to legalize thier relationship so that they have the same rights as a Mr & Mrs Jones then you feel it's your obligation to treat them like second class citizens. Nice.

Uh, no... there's no society obligation to vaccinate and to hurt yourself for the good of society. If there is, please point me to the Catholic teaching on it as I'd love to know.

Mr. and Mr. Jones have the same right to marry the opposite sex like everyone else does... so they have the same rights and are not "2nd class".

With the logic that allows gay marriage and "how's it hurt you", pretty soon we will be allowing people to marry animals or anything else they want to marry. Polygamy too. How's it hurt you? So you tell me... where does it stop?

[Common Sense Al]

Lets see, gay marriage leads to possible adoption, since scientifically it is the only option, which means another child gets to live, which means one less abortion.

so Al, here is my question, would you rather see a child be aborted, homeless or mistreated to the point they were put in foster care? Or would you rather see a gay couple adopt that child and care for it and love it as if it were there own?

When having to chose between two evils, the lesser evil should be chosen, but that does not justify the lesser evil.

When it comes to abortion, that is one of the greatest evils (killing an innocent human being)... so guess which one I would choose if there were no other options (which is not the case in reality)? But again, remember it does not justify the lesser evil.

And you forget the fact that there are plenty of people wanting to adopt and won't bring up their kid in a disordered lifestyle.

[HEAD]

With the logic that allows gay marriage and "how's it hurt you", pretty soon we will be allowing people to marry animals or anything else they want to marry. Polygamy too. How's it hurt you? So you tell me... where does it stop?

Sound slike someone was listening to Gallagher this morning. I'm sorry, but saying that people will marry their pets becasue of Gay Marriage is just plain idiotic.
If you listened to Gallagher this morning, you also heard the caller that said that he can not understand that Gay Marriage is bad, but adultry it OK. If marriage is so sacred, then adultry should also be a against the law and divore should not be allowed.

[Common Sense Al]

Sound slike someone was listening to Gallagher this morning. I'm sorry, but saying that people will marry their pets becasue of Gay Marriage is just plain idiotic.
If you listened to Gallagher this morning, you also heard the caller that said that he can not understand that Gay Marriage is bad, but adultry it OK. If marriage is so sacred, then adultry should also be a against the law and divore should not be allowed.

No, I wasn't listening to Gallagher this morning... not even sure who he is.

People might now think it's not OK to marry pets, but a while ago they thought gay marriage wasn't OK too. But as you can see, things change, usually slowly - like a frog sitting in water that is being heated... the frog will die if it's done slowly. So to me, it's idiotic to think that this won't happen in the future... there will be some "animal marriage rights" group come up and fight for such rights. Look at all the "rights" groups we have now. But if that's too much to think about now, what about polygamy, there are some who want polygamy now... so shouldn't they be able to be polygamous if Mr. and Mr. Jones can get married? What about their "civil rights"?

Adultly is also immoral and divorce is not allowed in the Catholic church. The law often does not reflect morality.

[Lantana07]

Well, in the military adultery is a crime. You probably won't go to jail for it, but every day people are busted in rank all the way down the chain and forefeit benefits. Wonder how that would go over in the civi world? If stat's are true, 50% of us would be knocked back down to entry level at work

[jlbates]

I feel somewhat obligated to chime in and say that Al's perspective is not representative of all Catholics today. Of course, many do share his opinions, but I can say that others do not. Having been raised Catholic, I see some of his views as very extreme and old school.

Old School, by the way, is a great movie!

[Brian]

I am kinda disappointed that the supreme court overruled the voters. It should be consistent whether I agree with the ruling or not.

That being said, I couldnt help but be happy for the people when reading that article.

On a personal level, I have a very close gay friend. He has a partner and in all sense, they are "married". They are a great couple, have a stronger relationship than most straight couples I know, and would be better parents than many. Ive asked them about the legal marriage part and they seem to have adjusted to it well. They said they didnt need a legal document, or the govt, to tell them they are a family.

I would have to agree.

[linux_is_cool]

Old School, by the way, is a great movie!

One of my favorite 2, Van Wilder being the other

[jlbates]

Old School, by the way, is a great movie!

One of my favorite 2, Van Wilder being the other

It seems we have more in common than you know, Linus.

[Common Sense Al]

I feel somewhat obligated to chime in and say that Al's perspective is not representative of all Catholics today. Of course, many do share his opinions, but I can say that others do not. Having been raised Catholic, I see some of his views as very extreme and old school.

While I agree that my views here are not representative of many Catholics today, I do have to say that they should be. A Catholic should adhere to the doctrines and truths of the Catholic church. As far as I know, my moral views (abortion, gay marriage, divorce, death penalty, birth control, sanctity of life, etc) that I have expressed here (many but perhaps not all) are based on true/official Catholic teaching. They are not views that I simply made up myself.

If a Catholic has a view other than what is the official teaching, then they should really pray about it and find out why they are in conflict with the church. There are many, many, Catholics who call themselves Catholic but do not take their faith seriously (some call them "cafeteria Catholics" because they pick and choose what they want to believe). There is even a "Pro-Choice Catholic" group!

Anyway, I'd like to invite anyone who is truly interested in discussing and learning more about the moral questions raised here to send me a private message. I'd be happy to see if I can get you invited to a small and friendly group of Catholic "brothers" I get together with every few weeks on a weeknight. Our next meeting is in Highland Village, so it's pretty close. Any takers???

[matj6876]

With the logic that allows gay marriage and "how's it hurt you", pretty soon we will be allowing people to marry animals or anything else they want to marry. Polygamy too. How's it hurt you? So you tell me... where does it stop?

Applying the same logic:
Abolition of slavery would have lead to freedom for all domesticated & agricultural animals. I can hear the cry now - "I have a .... cow!"
Suffrage would have lead to animal voting and in turn their rights to fair representation. "Votes for Warthogs!", "Lassie for President!"

And whilst we are at it, if 3 consenting adults all wish to enter into a polygamous relationship good luck to them. Much rather they do that and it's all out in the open than the travelling business man leaving his dutiful wife in Dallas and shacking up with his assistant every time he heads out of town. Both are multiple partner situations. Personally one wife is more than enough for me.

[Lantana07]

Gatorade, anyone?

Al, we all know your stance on certain things (and I don't think God has gone new skool, so old skool is probably okay). I don't disagree with your assessment that gay marriage and homosexuality is morally wrong (note: but it's no more wrong than adultery, theft, etc. Sin is sin)...but...the hard reality is that our country's judges have typically chosen not rubber stamp the legislation of sexual morality except in the cases of prostitution and children. (and before you go down the abortion or stem cell road, these are TOTALLY separate issues).

But as a Christian, your primary mission is to use your faith as YOUR moral compass and to do what you can to increase the kingdom in a considerate and compassionate and loving way. Screaming sinner from the rooftop isn't what I think He meant. I strongly believe there will be a price to be paid for those who choose not to believe, but it's just that - a choice to believe and then to act.

There are millions who have not (and will not) made that choice yet, so their moral compass is not the same as yours or mine or any other believer. What our country's judges are doing, by following their moral AND legal compass, is keeping religion out of the system - exactly as our forefathers asked them to. As a judge presiding over this sort of thing, they first must ask, "Is there a legal (not moral, legal) basis to prevent this sort of behavior from becoming legal?" That's what they were sworn to do - uphold our Constitution. I'm pretty sure there's not a gay clause in that piece of paper.

That does not prevent you from expressing your opinion, and it shouldn't. You should continue to express and follow your compass direction. But while doing so, you need to understand that your compass is not the government's overriding compass. LEGALLY there is nothing to prevent gay's from marrying. And honestly, when looking at the tradition and morality of this it turns that thesis upside down in my head, too. But thankfully, our civil rights are not predicated on my tradition or morality.

Making gay marriage legal doesn't make it less of a sin in God's eyes. But when just about half of all marriages end in divorce and about 30% of men are unfaithful (inside and outside the church), I can't buy the argument about how gay marriage erodes family values. They already are.

[linux_is_cool]

I personally don't care whether they get married or not. I think to find the true answer to this debate, it would have to be scientifically decided whether a person is born gay, or becomes gay. My personal opinion is that they are born gay,

I just couldn't see waking up one day and going to your fishing buddy and saying "Larry, we've been friends for a long time, what do you say we..." Just don't see it happening.

If they are born that way, then how can you keep them from doing what is natural to them?

I just don't get it. How is it affecting you, next I guess there should be a law in place that doesn't allow a gay couple to live together, or god forbid, move in across the street from you.

[HEAD]

Well, in the military adultery is a crime. You probably won't go to jail for it, but every day people are busted in rank all the way down the chain and forefeit benefits. Wonder how that would go over in the civi world? If stat's are true, 50% of us would be knocked back down to entry level at work

90% of congress would be busted down to interns.

[Common Sense Al]

90% of congress would be busted down to interns.

See... and THAT would be good for the country! Get them out of there!